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#5799250 - 06/21/15 04:47 PM Failure to fire
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
I need some of THF infinite wisdom.

The gun : Remington R25 AR-10, purchased used a month or two ago.

The problem: rack the slide and chambers a round.
Pull the trigger and and all I hear is a click.
Pull back on the charging handle and the round doesn't extract.
Run a cleaning rod down the barrel and the round comes out easily
There is either a very slight dimple or no marks on the primer.
This started out happening every once in a while, now happening most of the time
Unable to tell of the gun is in battery and round seated all the way.

The ammo: hand loads. 43.5 grs of 3031, Sierra game king bullet OAL 2.798"

Observations after disassembling the BCG.

Firing pin looks fine
Extractor looks fine
Everything was tight
Everything was clean

Any thoughts?



Edited by Beaubien (06/21/15 05:06 PM)
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#5799267 - 06/21/15 05:00 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
syncerus Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 2456
Loc: Dallas, TX
Do you have the same problem with factory ammo? It sounds like the case shoulders are set too far back. You may have oversized your brass.
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#5799273 - 06/21/15 05:04 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
syncerus Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 2456
Loc: Dallas, TX
Not extracting is more puzzling. It sounds as though the cases have not been completely resized and are not fully seating in the chamber. The cure for both problems is likely a combination of small base dies and a L.E. Wilson .308 headspace gauge:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/880646/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gage-308-winchester
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#5799326 - 06/21/15 05:46 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
Thanks for the reply. If it is the sizing is there a way to salvage the brass or is it toast? I will order a new die and the gauge. Going to be a learning curve with that.

I am using an older Lee die as well as a factory crimp die

Here is a pic of loaded round compared to a milsurp round. Something does look amis. All cases were trimmed to length after sizing. The length of the neck is the same but the transition from shoulder to neck isn't as sharp.


Can't shoot the milsurp because it is was too hot causing difficult extraction in this gun and a bolt gun.
Don't have any factory rounds to shoot. May go buy a box to try it out.




Edited by Beaubien (06/21/15 05:57 PM)
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#5799386 - 06/21/15 06:45 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
red bluff Offline
Tracker

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 565
Loc: Texas, Erath
Is the bolt carrier group clean and in order?

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#5799418 - 06/21/15 07:06 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
Yep, looked just like it should.
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#5799453 - 06/21/15 07:23 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
BassCat'99 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1160
Loc: Stratford Texas
Before purchasing any dies run a full magazine of factory to check loading, firing and ejection. If checks out then it would most likly be the reloads. You can pull the bullets, save the powder then try re-sizing a few to check your dies.
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#5799544 - 06/21/15 08:37 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 21785
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Do you have brass that has been successfully fired in the rifle?
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#5799550 - 06/21/15 08:41 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
red bluff Offline
Tracker

Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 565
Loc: Texas, Erath
I would get in a safe location and chamber a milsurp round and eject then chamber a reload and eject. Each time trying to determine if the the round is going into battery. If the reload is not going into battery you have an ammo issue, if it is then I think it is a gun issue. I had a failure to fire with a AR15 once and it turned out something in the trigger group had worked loose. It took the gun smith about 5 minutes to fix. If it is a bulging base you might use a marker on one round when you try to chamber. Paint one side and see where it is making contact.

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#5799580 - 06/21/15 08:57 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: FiremanJG]
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Do you have brass that has been successfully fired in the rifle?


Sure do.... I fired about 20 rounds today and about 10 or so wouldn't, didn't really count I was frustrated

I'll compare the two.
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#5799603 - 06/21/15 09:14 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 21785
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: Beaubien
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Do you have brass that has been successfully fired in the rifle?


Sure do.... I fired about 20 rounds today and about 10 or so wouldn't, didn't really count I was frustrated

I'll compare the two.


If you don't have the Hornady head space gauge, now is the time. Measure 5 or more cases and set your FL die to bump the shoulders .002"-.003" from the fired length. Then you will get the brass sized perfectly to fit your chamber.
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#5799802 - 06/21/15 11:08 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
I think I have it figured out thanks to you guys helping. Sure thought it was a weapon issue. I have loaded and shot at least 100 rounds with this die.

The transition point between neck and shoulder is to wide.

On the milsurp round it is .3489, my loaded round that did not fire is .3625. A quick google search shows that Saami specs are .3433.

Some of the others I loaded are slightly smaller. I had already sized and primed about 50 others that are not loaded yet. They have the same issue. Pretty sure that 16 thousandths is way to big. Particularly when slightly rounded. I don't think the gun ever went into battery.

I don't know how a die goes bad but looks like something is wrong with it.

I have ordered a small base die and the gauge. Hopefully will be in next week.

Been handloading 35 years, the longer I do it the more I realize there is more to learn.


Edited by Beaubien (06/21/15 11:16 PM)
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#5800293 - 06/22/15 12:10 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 11492
Loc: Lewisville, TX
It's definitely something with your sizing. Or a brass issue with your sizing. That's almost .020" too big in the neck, and somethings not right. I've never seen a die "go bad". Are you making firm contact with the shell holder during sizing? The picture you posted shows the round is not full length sized, like it's not making full contact with the shell holder during sizing.
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#5800502 - 06/22/15 03:10 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
Shell holder and contact is fine. The die is about 30 years old, I used to hunt with a bolt 308 back then. I ahvent used it in taht amount of time. Don't know what happened to the die but something is wrong with it. I'm with you, I load for 15 or so caliber a and have never seen a sizing die go bad.

I looked up in it but my aging eyes can't tell much. Pretty confident in my process but certainly am fallible. New die on order. Will post results.

Thanks Chad!


Edited by Beaubien (06/22/15 03:14 PM)
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#5800949 - 06/22/15 07:32 PM Re: Failure to fire [Re: Beaubien]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 7291
Loc: Wise Co.
Are you having to work like the devil to get the expander back out of the case during resizing? It's possible that your pulling hard enough to stretch the junction of the neck and shoulder. If that's the case, dipping the case neck in graphite or motor mica before sizing can help with that issue.
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