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Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
#5790756
06/16/15 01:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,682
krmitchell
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We have had a couple discussions on lawyer made trusts, DIY trusts, and everything in between. So I'm curious, how many people have been checked by any form of law enforcement? Other than filing paperwork, how many folks have had to use that paperwork to justify ownership of an item?
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5790872
06/16/15 03:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
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Never, and had 2 GW check hunting lic, and LEO on a stop. Most wouldn't know for sure what they were looking at anyway. Mine is in my companies name, and I couldn't "prove" I was an employee on the spot without other documentation.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5790911
06/16/15 03:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
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krmitchell
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Were they aware of the suppressors?
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5790912
06/16/15 03:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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DStroud
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I have traveled to multiple states,flown on airplanes,Been checked by Game officials and County sheriff no one even acknowledged the fact I had a Suppressor that was on the end of my rifle
Last edited by DStroud; 06/16/15 03:58 AM.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791173
06/16/15 01:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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syncerus
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Nevertheless, it's one of those places in life where, when you're wrong, you're really wrong. It's worth the time to cross your t's and dot your i's.
It's clear that there are elements within BATF that have a pedantically legalistic view of affairs and are perfectly willing to send you to jail for **years** over very minor / reasonable / understandable mistakes, even, or especially, in places where the law is unclear.
You really want to be **strictly** legal at all times. It's not a place where you want to push boundaries.
FWIW, I keep images of my tax stamps and serial numbers on my phone.
Last edited by syncerus; 06/16/15 01:55 PM. Reason: speling
NRA Patriot Benefactor & DSC Lifer
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791188
06/16/15 02:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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You are not required to supply the paperwork to LEOs, game wardens, sheriff's, etc....only to an ATF agent. It says so on the paperwork. My guess is they would have no idea what they are looking at anyway. I have owned suppressors for years and traveled back and forth to Arkansas with my SBR's and suppressors multiple times, never been checked, but I've also never been pulled over while traveling with them or checked by a game warden. Mine is in my companies name, and I couldn't "prove" I was an employee on the spot without other documentation. Mine too.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: syncerus]
#5791189
06/16/15 02:08 PM
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krmitchell
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Nevertheless, it's one of those places in life where, when you're wrong, you're really wrong. It's worth the time to cross your t's and dot your i's.
It's clear that there are elements within BATF that have a pedantically legalistic view of affairs and are perfectly willing to send you to jail for **years** over very minor / reasonable / understandable mistakes, even, or especially, in places where the law is unclear.
You really want to be **strictly** legal at all times. It's not a place where you want to push boundaries.
FWIW, I keep images of my tax stamps and serial numbers on my phone. As do I, along with a copy of my trust. I also keep the same in my truck, shooting bag and gun case.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791257
06/16/15 02:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
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Were they aware of the suppressors? Yes. The rifle I was holding had it on the end of the barrel.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791296
06/16/15 03:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,015
huck18
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Seems to me like some of you way overthink this stuff. Like Doc said its only up to the ATF to check not LEOs or Game Wardens.
There is nothing wrong with drafting your own trust docs. Paying an attorney is a waste of good money.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791344
06/16/15 03:51 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,496
TX_LT230FH
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I keep copies of the stamps and trust with me whenever I carry a suppressor with me. Now, another question. If you travel with them across state lines (to another state where they are legal)don't you have to go online somewhere and fill out a form with the ATF?
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791405
06/16/15 04:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,776
NTXBowfisher
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I had, on multiple occasions, a range officer tell me they "were required by law" to check my paperwork, I told them that was not true but i'll show it to you anyway...
signature coming soon
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791499
06/16/15 05:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,539
TexFlip
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I had a RO ask me to see my paperwork. I politely said no and he told me to kick rocks. I asked him if he asked every person that comes to shoot if they are a felon. He reminded me I needed to kick rocks.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: TX_LT230FH]
#5791687
06/16/15 07:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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I keep copies of the stamps and trust with me whenever I carry a suppressor with me. Now, another question. If you travel with them across state lines (to another state where they are legal)don't you have to go online somewhere and fill out a form with the ATF? You only have to fill out the form when traveling across state lines with SBR's and machine guns. Suppressors do not require the form. It is form 5320.20. I fill it out once per year so I can travel to Arkansas with my SBR's for hunting. For the dates you can put a "From/To" date of 364 days apart so you only have to do it once per year. https://www.atf.gov/file/61536/download
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: TexFlip]
#5791702
06/16/15 07:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,682
krmitchell
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Seems to me like some of you way overthink this stuff. Like Doc said its only up to the ATF to check not LEOs or Game Wardens.
There is nothing wrong with drafting your own trust docs. Paying an attorney is a waste of good money. As I understand Texas state law, you as the holder of the NFA item bear the burden of responsibility to prove you are legally allowed to possess a NFA item if requested by a LEO. I had, on multiple occasions, a range officer tell me they "were required by law" to check my paperwork, I told them that was not true but i'll show it to you anyway... This is where I would refuse, what right do they have to check my items? Also, I'm not about to hand my trust over with an itemized list of what is contained in it to a stranger. That is just ridiculous that they even ask. I had a RO ask me to see my paperwork. I politely said no and he told me to kick rocks. I asked him if he asked every person that comes to shoot if they are a felon. He reminded me I needed to kick rocks. This would have been my response. I have yet to see why a range could give a crap about my NFA items. As I said above, I'm not about to hand over my paperwork to a stranger with information that quite honestly is none of his business.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791787
06/16/15 08:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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boonee
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I had the owner of a certain indoor gun range ask to see my Stamps on my SBR/suppressor after they asked what I would be shooting in the range. I told him SURE. I have photo copies with my SBR and in the box that I carry my suppressors in. He may not had the right to ask, but it is his range.
Avenger Firearms 214-577-5818 avengerfirearms@gmail.com
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: boonee]
#5791806
06/16/15 08:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,682
krmitchell
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I had the owner of a certain indoor gun range ask to see my Stamps on my SBR/suppressor after they asked what I would be shooting in the range. I told him SURE. I have photo copies with my SBR and in the box that I carry my suppressors in. He may not had the right to ask, but it is his range. While I agree it is his range, no one can tell me why it matters to them. Are they liable if someone shoots a can they can't have? If so I'd think the same would apply to a felon with a firearm there and they don't ask that. Why aren't they checking CHL's if someone is carrying then decides to go shoot with their carry weapon?
Last edited by rexmitchell; 06/16/15 08:52 PM.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5791838
06/16/15 09:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,776
NTXBowfisher
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i just show them copies of the stamps, i don't show them the trust, i don't usually carry the trust around anyway. I'll tell them their wrong but still show them because i still want to be able to shoot there...
Last edited by NTXBowfisher; 06/16/15 09:04 PM.
signature coming soon
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: NTXBowfisher]
#5792047
06/16/15 10:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,682
krmitchell
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i just show them copies of the stamps, i don't show them the trust, i don't usually carry the trust around anyway. I'll tell them their wrong but still show them because i still want to be able to shoot there... And I can understand that I just don't understand why the care.....
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5792063
06/16/15 10:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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i just show them copies of the stamps, i don't show them the trust, i don't usually carry the trust around anyway. I'll tell them their wrong but still show them because i still want to be able to shoot there... And I can understand that I just don't understand why the care..... I probably wouldn't check on our range, but if I did, and you didn't want to prove they were legal, then now knowing the phrase, you could kick rocks. It's totally your choice to show or not, as it is my choice who to allow on my range or not. I have copies of trust and stamps in any vehicle, my phone, any trustees phones, my briefcase, my wallet, my hat, inside each suppressor sheath, gun case, backpack, etc. I have had nothing but good dealings with ATF, plan on keeping it that way.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: huck18]
#5792711
06/17/15 05:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 303
bluesman
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Seems to me like some of you way overthink this stuff. Like Doc said its only up to the ATF to check not LEOs or Game Wardens.
There is nothing wrong with drafting your own trust docs. Paying an attorney is a waste of good money. Since you are obviously an expert at gun trusts, perhaps you would consider taking the time to analyze the following article on gun trusts and then enlighten all of us low information folks with your authoritative analysis of the article. The name of the article is: "Dispatches from the Trenches of America's Great Gun Trust Wars" It was written by a law professor at Northwestern University School of Law. The website location where you can download a pdf is: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2611781##If reading this doesn't scare the hell out of you and all the other "shoe clerks" practicing law out there then there is no hope. It sure scared the hell out of me. You guys may as well start doing neurosurgery and cardiac surgery. Your potential liability couldn't be any less. I commend it to all of you shoe clerk lawyers as required reading. You may learn something about how dangerous drafting your own gun trust really is. As I have said before. You have been warned - HAVE AT IT!!
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5792950
06/17/15 01:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Gemlin
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Ive never been asked to show my forms. However I generally call the Sheriffs office in the county Im going to to let them know Im going to shoot a machinegun. They appreciate it so if someone calls about the machinegun fire, I dont see 20+ deputies show up. Ive had one show up, but he just wanted to shoot it.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: krmitchell]
#5793027
06/17/15 02:23 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,402
Chunky Dunk
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I am no shoe clerk lawyer for sure, I would not have any problem paying a lawyer to do my trust. From what I have seen they are like $99. That's cheap insurance to keep me out of trouble with the ATF it seems.
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Re: Who has had their suppressor paperwork checked?
[Re: bluesman]
#5793033
06/17/15 02:26 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,016
SingleShot85
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Seems to me like some of you way overthink this stuff. Like Doc said its only up to the ATF to check not LEOs or Game Wardens.
There is nothing wrong with drafting your own trust docs. Paying an attorney is a waste of good money. The name of the article is: "Dispatches from the Trenches of America's Great Gun Trust Wars" It was written by a law professor at Northwestern University School of Law. The website location where you can download a pdf is: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2611781##If reading this doesn't scare the hell out of you and all the other "shoe clerks" practicing law out there then there is no hope. It sure scared the hell out of me. You guys may as well start doing neurosurgery and cardiac surgery. Your potential liability couldn't be any less. I commend it to all of you shoe clerk lawyers as required reading. You may learn something about how dangerous drafting your own gun trust really is. As I have said before. You have been warned - HAVE AT IT!! I got checked at Red's in Austin..... and I may be or you can call me biased but my wife is an attorney, I had her take a special continuing ed class specializing in firearms related trusts just to cover our azzes.... any trust will get you your item but...... its your butt when chit does not work out like you thought. Its kinda like buying a gun safe sure you can go to xyz store and get a stack-on safe to hold your guns i mean it has a lock and every thing, or you drop dime and get a real safe liberty just to name one..... you get the drift or you dont.....
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