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Exotic Pricing rational?
#5780433
06/09/15 02:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,136
EddieWalker
OP
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OP
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I've only hunted a few exotics hear in Texas, but plan on getting quite a bit more in time. I've always based my decision on who I hunt with on the price and what I get for that price. I keep notes on who has the best prices and what the trophy quality is like on those hunts. Before booking a hunt, I research for negative comments, bad experiences and also for all the good information I can find on that outfitter.
What I'm wondering is how do some outfitters come up with their prices? and does pricing even matter to those hunting with those who are way above the curve on their prices? Seems the only difference between a $1,800 twenty inch blackbuck and a $2,500 twenty inch blackbuck is either how fancy the place you stay at is, or something special about the outfitter? Otherwise, it's pretty much the exact same animal. What am I missing?
Eddie
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780445
06/09/15 02:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 165
Big Hunter
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 165 |
Missing $700.bucks if you take the $2500.00 hunt...........
Last edited by Big Hunter; 06/09/15 02:05 PM.
My son says my expections are way too high.........
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780466
06/09/15 02:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564 |
Depends if you want to stay at a resort with a wine cellar and executive chef of a six pack and campfire. I'll take the latter.
Last edited by TexFlip; 06/09/15 02:13 PM.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780484
06/09/15 02:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 978
el_cazador713
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 978 |
I've always asked the same question myself. To me I care more about the quality of game and the guide. The accommodations can be nice but I'll take a six pack by the fire all day with a great guide going after quality animals.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780498
06/09/15 02:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,081
Elkhunter49
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,081 |
I can't speak for anyone else but for me it's not just about price. I can get a nice room and a meal anywhere so all I really require is something clean and cool or warm. I actually prefer to feed myself. If I call about a hunt and the outfitter is vague with his answers then I'm not likely to hunt with him. I want specific answers to my very specific questions. The price for me is relative to the quality of the animal. You need to have a clear list of expectations that your looking for when you call an outfitter so there are no surprises. If an outfitter has some really exceptional trophy's then I expect to pay more but if the game he's offering is average or slightly above then I'm not intrested in paying above average prices for what they have. I'll give you an example of what I mean. An outfitter called me last year and said he had some legit 36"-38" Axis bucks to hunt. The price was at the top of the scale and I agreed thinking it was going to be a true trophy hunt. Turns out the outfitter did have 2 different bucks that were 36"+ but both were about as big around as my little finger. I think the problem here is that I didn't ask specific enough questions. Live and learn. Baker
Last edited by Elkhunter49; 06/09/15 05:28 PM.
A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: Elkhunter49]
#5780544
06/09/15 02:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 978
el_cazador713
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 978 |
Couldn't agree with your more, upfront clear expectations is key.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: el_cazador713]
#5780687
06/09/15 04:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22
Hankg
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 22 |
One of the things I am trying to understand is the charge for non hunting guests. I would like to bring my wife along on a hunt but I am blown away by the fees some want for her there. If they are feeding her too I totally understand charging a couple hundred a day extra for her but $500? Some places I have looked at just have a cabin supplied and I would supply my own meals and they still want $200 to $250 extra a day for her? I understand if her being there would prevent them from being able to have another paying client but in most of these situations it wouldn't.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780775
06/09/15 05:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,240
Erny
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,240 |
I tend to focus more on the hunt and less on the lodging/food. Most of the times I think the price difference is the quality of food and lodging. Also some of the ranches that are expensive are quite impressive and more like a 5 star resort than a hunting ranch. I tend to book based on the quality of animals rather than lodging. However, if my wife is going, well it's the resort style place.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780890
06/09/15 06:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 788
hermano W
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 788 |
Having to put up with PEOPLE on your cherished property raises the price of a hunt. Livestock prices are high and so are live exotic prices, and that raises the price of a hunt. Bed and breakfast, and restaurant prices are high, so that raises the price of a hunt. Feeding and upkeep is a year around expense that always goes up, and that raises the price of a hunt. It is only reasonable that the rancher wants to "sell" the hunt and service for a good price. If people pay his price, it must have been fair. If his price is too high, people have the right to take their business elsewhere and will, simple as that.
Last edited by hermano W; 06/09/15 06:14 PM.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780894
06/09/15 06:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 15,564 |
I should start doing day hunts at our place, cover the cost of feed for the year in a couple hunts.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780915
06/09/15 06:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949
don k
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 14,949 |
I may be wrong but I imagine a lot of difference in pricing has to do with how much the outfitter has invested in both the animals and facilities. A really good hotel probably has a 75% occupancy rate. An outfitter or hunting ranch is not going to have near that. But those facilities are still costing them when no one is there. Good animals cost good money. Very few hunting establishments cannot afford the luxury of raising their own animals and waiting the time necessary to get them to trophy status. A hunting ranch cannot pay $1500 for say a good BB and sell him for $1750 and stay in business very long. The best way to get a reasonable hunt is to go with one of the different outfitters that hunt various ranches and do not actually own any of those animals. When an animal is taken the outfitter gets paid and he pays the landowner. An you stay at a motel 6 and eat at mickey d's.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5780954
06/09/15 06:47 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382 |
There are basically three types of ranches, naturally reproducing, breed and release, and put and take. Some of the naturally reproducing and breed and release ranches are intensively managed increasing costs. As the level of management decreases trophy quality is hit or miss, but because the input costs are less, they can cost less. If you want to hunt on a highly managed ranch, with the expectation of high trophy quality, expect to pay for it, top notch accommodations just add to the cost. The biggest heartburn is when one tier hunt is misrepresented as a higher tier hunt.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: Elkhunter49]
#5781259
06/09/15 09:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547
chital_shikari
Minor in training
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Minor in training
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12,547 |
I can't speak for anyone else but for me it's not just about price. I can get a nice room and a meal anywhere so all I really require is something clean and cool or warm. I actually prefer to feed myself. If I call about a hunt and the outfitter is vague with his answers then I'm not likely to hunt with him. I want specific answers to my very specific questions. The price for me is relative to the quality of the animal. You need to have a clear list of expectations that your looking for when you call an outfitter so there are no surprises. If an outfitter has some really exceptional trophy's then I expect to pay more but if the game he's offering is average or slightly above then I'm not intrested in paying above average prices for what they have. I'll give you an example of what I mean. An outfitter called me last year and said he had some legit 36"-38" Axis bucks to hunt. The price was at the top of the scale and I agreed thinking it was going to be a true trophy hunt. Turns out the outfitter did have 2 different bucks that were 36"+ but both were about as big around as my little finger. I think the problem here is that I didn't ask specific enough questions. Live and learn. Baker X2
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: nsmike]
#5781272
06/09/15 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 454
ram hunter 1964
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 454 |
You all hit the nail right on the head.
The groundwork of all happiness is hunting.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: don k]
#5781773
06/10/15 02:17 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 261
rbw1
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 261 |
I may be wrong but I imagine a lot of difference in pricing has to do with how much the outfitter has invested in both the animals and facilities. A really good hotel probably has a 75% occupancy rate. An outfitter or hunting ranch is not going to have near that. But those facilities are still costing them when no one is there. Good animals cost good money. Very few hunting establishments cannot afford the luxury of raising their own animals and waiting the time necessary to get them to trophy status. A hunting ranch cannot pay $1500 for say a good BB and sell him for $1750 and stay in business very long. The best way to get a reasonable hunt is to go with one of the different outfitters that hunt various ranches and do not actually own any of those animals. When an animal is taken the outfitter gets paid and he pays the landowner. An you stay at a motel 6 and eat at mickey d's. U hit it on the head Don. U hit it on the head Don .
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: don k]
#5781930
06/10/15 03:31 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I may be wrong but I imagine a lot of difference in pricing has to do with how much the outfitter has invested in both the animals and facilities. A really good hotel probably has a 75% occupancy rate. An outfitter or hunting ranch is not going to have near that. But those facilities are still costing them when no one is there. Good animals cost good money. Very few hunting establishments cannot afford the luxury of raising their own animals and waiting the time necessary to get them to trophy status. A hunting ranch cannot pay $1500 for say a good BB and sell him for $1750 and stay in business very long. The best way to get a reasonable hunt is to go with one of the different outfitters that hunt various ranches and do not actually own any of those animals. When an animal is taken the outfitter gets paid and he pays the landowner. An you stay at a motel 6 and eat at mickey d's. Yep. No way you can make a profit buying blackbuck, axis, fallow or sika and selling hunts for them. You have to raise them. I would disagree with the last point though. Outfitters can and do provide valuable services and many times can provide hunts at bargain prices. But so can landowners. And one thing that hasn't been mentioned is add ons. Does the 1750 blackbuck include all costs? Also, if you have to provide your own lodging and meals and travel back and forth to the ranch and you get a $1750 20" blackbuck, is that better than hanging out at the ranch and eating my food drinking my libations and smoking my cigars for $2,000? Maybeso, maybenot. It's really all in what you want out of your experience. And sometimes you get what you pay for.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5781982
06/10/15 04:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,239
Creekrunner
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,239 |
A lot of you all are in the business, so I won't comment on the particulars.
What has puzzled me for the last several years are what folks still try to charge for trophy axis hunts and they are literally all over the south central hill country. I understand costs, the inability to pattern free-ranging, low-fence axis, and the time constraints of an out of area client. But, I still think it's beginning to look like the emu ranching "rage" of several years ago.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: Creekrunner]
#5782084
06/10/15 11:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949
don k
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949 |
A lot of you all are in the business, so I won't comment on the particulars.
What has puzzled me for the last several years are what folks still try to charge for trophy axis hunts and they are literally all over the south central hill country. I understand costs, the inability to pattern free-ranging, low-fence axis, and the time constraints of an out of area client. But, I still think it's beginning to look like the emu ranching "rage" of several years ago. A lot of what you say is true, but the market pretty well to an extent sets the prices. There are a lot of people in the world that hunt. This forum covers a very small portion of that market. This area of Texas has an abundance of Axis. But this is probably the only place in the world like that. Those places that can offer Axis on a guaranteed basis are also limited. Thus the price has remained fairly stable. Another one of my opinions that mean squat.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5782091
06/10/15 11:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
A lot of difference in pricing is due to number of animals available to choose from on a hunt. If a ranch only has one or two at the price it will reflect it since they have limited numbers. If they have 10-25 Axis in the 32"-36" range the price will reflect it. They have numbers of a certain Trophy class and they will charge accordingly. Also who owns the ranch and who is doing the hunt effects the price. Numbers and quality will have a lot to do with the price, just as much if not more than the aesthetics and lodging.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5782109
06/10/15 12:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 173
Cavemanwildlife
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 173 |
For us, there are so many brokers and landowners purchasing Live animals at such high prices that it makes it difficult to sell hunts in general. Because of our genetics, we just sold 70 animals including 10 Axis Bucks in the 28-32" range for $100/inch and 15"+ Blackbuck for $90/inch. 12 different brokers/landowners showed up and were almost fighting over them and it's the same way with the females. We used to sell Axis doe hunts for $250 but now we get $400 for them Live. So we have to be at prices that are at least equal to Live sale prices. You also have Companies buying Corporate packages for clients and Quality of animals, customer service and accommodations are key for them.
www.cavemanwildlife.comHome of Monster Fallow Deer Plus One of the Largest Pure Nubian Ibex and Transcaspian Urial Herds in the Country
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5782166
06/10/15 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,081
Elkhunter49
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,081 |
This is a very intresting discussion. I'm always looking for my next hunt and planning is a big part of the whole deal to me. I try and do as much research as possible on-line so as to not have to call someone and take up there time unless I've narrowed my options down and need some very specific information about what they have to offer. I'm not some rich guy so price is always part of the equation with me but it's more than just that. I hunt with folks that I'm comforable talking to and who I think are telling me the truth about what they have and not just telling me what they think I want to hear. I've been very lucky so far and have gotten to meet some fine folks and spend a few days on some beautiful ranches that I never would have other wise. Baker
A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: Hankg]
#5782191
06/10/15 01:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,902
Simple Searcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,902 |
One of the things I am trying to understand is the charge for non hunting guests. I would like to bring my wife along on a hunt but I am blown away by the fees some want for her there. If they are feeding her too I totally understand charging a couple hundred a day extra for her but $500? Some places I have looked at just have a cabin supplied and I would supply my own meals and they still want $200 to $250 extra a day for her? I understand if her being there would prevent them from being able to have another paying client but in most of these situations it wouldn't. The non-hunting guest thing has always surprised me too. I have gone hunting with my brother on several different occasions and they only charged $100 for me. That gave me a room and fed me. I thought this was a good approach by the land owner because sure as heck I would get out there and start negotiating a hunt for myself. It worked every time, I couldn't stand my brother hunting and all I could do was watch. Another place wanted $200 a day for me as a guest, but for $300 they would let me take a doe, and that included my room and board. The best I could figure was that my brother was paying top dollar and I was reaping the benefit. There are so many different approaches to the pricing game, you just have to shop around and find the package that works for you. Now days I will pay pay more for less hassle and a nice place to stay.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: Cavemanwildlife]
#5782325
06/10/15 02:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,947
Curtis
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,947 |
For us, there are so many brokers and landowners purchasing Live animals at such high prices that it makes it difficult to sell hunts in general. Because of our genetics, we just sold 70 animals including 10 Axis Bucks in the 28-32" range for $100/inch and 15"+ Blackbuck for $90/inch. 12 different brokers/landowners showed up and were almost fighting over them and it's the same way with the females. We used to sell Axis doe hunts for $250 but now we get $400 for them Live. So we have to be at prices that are at least equal to Live sale prices. You also have Companies buying Corporate packages for clients and Quality of animals, customer service and accommodations are key for them. I agree! I base my hunt prices from what I can easily get for them on live sale. Currently that market is high. The conditions of lodge, meals, etc, are not taken into account for it. I really don't understand why some others are so low. Why sell a blackbuck or two for $1800 each when you know you can get that same price or better for live sale. I can sell those and more in one day and not have to tend to hunters for a whole weekend. I can take the hunters out for only two animals and tend to those hunters all weekend. Or I can trap and dart 15-30 head in a day or two and make much more for my time. The hunting industry in Texas is not based for the average hunter. A lot of those places that have those prices that you see as out of the curve, are not catering to the average joe. They are taking on clients that are corporate hunts and that sets the scale for their price. If they can get the money for it, I will sell them the animals and forget about conducting the hunts because its less for me to mess with and more money for me.The corporate hunts set the bar for the market. When they are willing to pay more for them, the live sale prices will go up.
Double Arrow Bow Hunting www.doublearrowbowhunting.comBow hunters welcome! Whitetail-Axis-Blackbuck-Fallow-Barasingha-Scimitar Oryx Located in Gonzales County. Visit our Facebook page for current updates!
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: Curtis]
#5784110
06/11/15 02:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,136
EddieWalker
OP
Veteran Tracker
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OP
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,136 |
I'm self employed and I charge more then my competition because I have such a long waiting list for my work. I understand charging more if you can get it. I guess that's whats going on with the cost of the animals. If you can get it, then you are doing something more then just providing the animal. It sounds like there are enough people out there willing to pay a lot more for the same sized trophy if it includes all the extras. That's not me, and it is something that I struggle to comprehend when pricing an animal. Especially when a person posts a special for an animal and it's a lot more then the norm, and even more then what they list for that animal on their website.
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Re: Exotic Pricing rational?
[Re: EddieWalker]
#5787438
06/13/15 09:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 485
Otto
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 485 |
Obviously it's about supply and demand. But wait a few months and see what's going to happen to prices of some exotics because of the way the oil industry is going........
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