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simple mildot scopes for extending your hunting range #5756895 05/24/15 01:18 AM
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I sometimes take for granted the features found in many of my scopes, but you don't need a feature rich scope to extend your hunting range.

The recipe is simple, and alot of modern high power hunting cartridges will be close ballistically.

Find a lower power ( 3-9 for example) mildot scope. FFP is better, but you can make due with a SFP scope.
I chose the old japanese made sightron s1 mildots. Also, invest in a quality range finder.

Find a range that allows access to 5-600 yards.

Zero the windage at 100. Get a dead nutz elevation zero at 300 yards. Cap the turrets and forget about them.

Lets say you have a 7mm 162 sst moving around 3000 fps.

1 mil hold under is your 100 yard impact
0 is at 300
.7 hold over gets your 400 yard hit
1.0 is 450
1.5 mil is your 500


This is so dirt simple. All it requires is range time to become proficient. No dialing, and no taking your eyes off the targets. Just range the target, apply dope in your reticle, and let it rip.

You will be holding wind in empty space at 1.5 mils, but most of your wind holds at this range will be within 1 mil left or right.

Environment changes are easy too. Just run the formula through a simple program like JBM to get your dope, then head to the range and apply it.

It's waaaay past time to move on from BDC reticles.


Last edited by 6.5x47Lapua; 05/24/15 05:18 PM.
Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5756952 05/24/15 01:57 AM
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I agree with everything except zeroing elevation at 300 yards. The whole point of Mils is to be able to hold wind and elevation, and having 5 Mils available on most scopes, that will get a long list of chamberings to 700 yards. I'm betting the majority of folks will have a hard time remembering to hold under for less than 300 yards. The majority of hunting shots are 50 to 200 yards, right? + .5 Mil for 50 yards, zero hold for 100 yards, +.3 to .5 Mil for 200 yards, +1.0 Mil for 300 yards, + 1.8 to 2.0 Mil fro 400 yards.

I agree you'll be holding out in space when you're holding elevation and wind, but it is do-able. I have guys do that very thing close to the end of the day during my class. We dial elevation and hold wind first, then come back to 200 and hold both. I tell them I'll dial elevation if given the second to do it, but I want you to know how to use both.

And yes, BDC needs to go away. When I have had friends show up with a BDC of some sort, the first thing I do is put it on 100 yard graph paper and translate it to Mil or MOA so I can use a ballistic calculator.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757026 05/24/15 03:25 AM
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Here is my logic behind a 300 yard zero on a 500-600 yard hog hunting rifle.

1. Wind doesn't matter as much at 100.
2. Wind really starts to come into play at 300+.
3. When zeroed at 300, you have the horizontal crosshair to get that perfect wind hold.
4. Holding under 1 mil almost always gets you close to a 100 yard zero.
5. The further you get away from the center, the less precise your wind hold will become.

This all assumes you are using a simple mildot or tmr type reticle. If a guy were using a tree style mil reticle, then absolutely use a 100 yard zero.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757419 05/24/15 04:10 PM
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Seems like a simple system.

Problems I see would be zeroing at 300 yards. Most hunters aren't going to have a range close by to do that. They are not confident to proficient shooters at 300 yards because of scope and no range nearby to practice at that distance.

Much easier to zero a good FFP mil/mil scope @ 100 yards, hold for wind and click for elevation.

Case in point:

Sapper Titan and I set up a range out to 300 yards at Erath Kids place, which was not easy to do with all the high weed growth. I'm new to the longe range game. I haven't been able to get to FiremanJG's school yet so I had no dope to go by. I'm shooting 308 178 grain Amax.

I asked Jason if he could provide me elevation dope based on what I am shooting and he was kind enough to give it to me. I'm shooting the new Bushy 4.5x18 LRHS. The hard part was setting up the range. We wanted to go further out but just could find the right set up.

Talk about fun though, we set up 100, 200, 300 and I simply dialed in the elevation dope and ponded the targets. First time I've easily shot 300. Great sight picture gave me confidence and just dialed to 1.2 mils and pounded the target.

Last edited by Pitchfork Predator; 05/24/15 04:17 PM.

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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757449 05/24/15 04:36 PM
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Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757519 05/24/15 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.



I agree with all this.

I also stand by my statement of always zeroing at 100 yards for every Mil scope that will be used inside 1k. Getting a perfect 100 yard zero prevents the magnificatio of error at distance. Being .1 Mil off at 100 turns into a miss on some game at 300.

Zero at 100 and you are ALWAYS dialing or holding up for elevation, never down.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757565 05/24/15 06:18 PM
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I am a hunter from way back and I am not trying to start an argument on scopes. Started off using just regular cross hairs on my deer gun long ago. I had never even taken a shot over a hundred yards on a deer. About 6 years ago I upgraded to a Burris Fullfield II with a BDC Reticle just to retire my Bushnell. (Told you it was a long time ago.) The Burris with the BDC did me good. Actually took a couple of deer at around 200 yards. Not saying it was "the" scope I needed but it did help me out at longer ranges. I actually used it in Jason's Hunter's Challenge last year. Did not do too bad considering I had never shot past 200 yards with my gun. BDC really helped me out, on that day, with different ranges up to 300 yards. Since that first Hunters Challenge I have learned a lot from different people on this forum and trying things out for my self. I took up reloading and am learning the criticalness of accuracy and precision. Since then I have built different rifles playing with longer range paper punching. I have also purchased different scopes and two scopes that I wound up keeping both SWFA, an 3 x 15 x 42 and a 16 x 42. Yes they are both Mill/Mill. Still learning those two puppies. I say all of this because I still have that Burris with BDC on my go to deer rifle that I use all of the time. Luckily the BDC hash marks lined very nicely at 200 and 300 yards. Don't see the need for changing it for what I use it for although I am having a blast using the other two scopes on my long range toys shooting at 500 yards +.


Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757666 05/24/15 08:06 PM
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I mostly mirror what GLC says, right down to the Burris FFII and BDC. It worked fine for me, but I could see that there were limitations. So, I bought a Vortex Viper PST FFP scope. Last season was the first full deer season, though I had used it long before that for coyotes and pigs. I sighted it in for 100 yards. That worked OK, but soon I'm going to sight it in for 200 yards and try that for a while. The plan is to shoot without turret cranking at distances to about 300 yards, then use the turrets as needed for further out. I wouldn't do it like that if I just shot paper, but hunting sometimes requires me to think fast and shoot fast. All my other hunting rifles are set up with a 200 yard zero and have been for decades, so I'm going for consistency. All my coyote shots for the last year or two have been from 50 to 250 yards, so the 200 yard zero will make things fast and easy for me. I'm not suggesting that my approach is the best, but it is the best for me. I've just had the 270, 260, and 220 trajectories in my mind for so long that anything else introduces minor confusion and hesitation when the shot presents itself.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757751 05/24/15 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.


I understand and agree except for me the scope and sight picture wouldn't be enough on a 2nd fp 3x9 to zero accurately at 300 yards. I would barely be able to get a good bullseye at that distance with that scope. I tried shooting Sapper's 3x9 Nikon mil reticle and would of never been able to sight it in at 300 yards.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #5757763 05/24/15 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.


I understand and agree except for me the scope and sight picture wouldn't be enough on a 2nd fp 3x9 to zero accurately at 300 yards. I would barely be able to get a good bullseye at that distance with that scope. I tried shooting Sapper's 3x9 Nikon mil reticle and would of never been able to sight it in at 300 yards.


That really surprises me. I have no problem hitting targets inside 7-800 yards at less than 10 power. In fact, I prefer it.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757823 05/24/15 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.


I understand and agree except for me the scope and sight picture wouldn't be enough on a 2nd fp 3x9 to zero accurately at 300 yards. I would barely be able to get a good bullseye at that distance with that scope. I tried shooting Sapper's 3x9 Nikon mil reticle and would of never been able to sight it in at 300 yards.


That really surprises me. I have no problem hitting targets inside 7-800 yards at less than 10 power. In fact, I prefer it.


Two questions:

Is your vision corrected or are you gifted with 20/20?

How old are your eyes compared to some of these guys in their 50's and 60's?

Real questions.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757954 05/25/15 12:56 AM
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Still have 20/20 at the young age of 33.

I really should be more considerate. Sounds like I take my vision for granted.

Of course, the only reason I like shooting at lower power is the all important field of view.

Using a 300 yard zero to help maximize the mildot reticle would work great no matter what power you choose to use. All that matters is that the mildot still reads in 1 mil increments. This is the real beauty of a ffp scope. You get to choose which power works best for you.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5757965 05/25/15 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Still have 20/20 at the young age of 33.

I really should be more considerate. Sounds like I take my vision for granted.

Of course, the only reason I like shooting at lower power is the all important field of view.

Using a 300 yard zero to help maximize the mildot reticle would work great no matter what power you choose to use. All that matters is that the mildot still reads in 1 mil increments. This is the real beauty of a ffp scope. You get to choose which power works best for you.


I did too until I hit 45. That was the last perfect thing on my body. bang


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5758530 05/25/15 02:55 PM
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I had great vision until my mid 40s, it's been getting worse ever since. Damn computers and smart phones!


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5758682 05/25/15 04:46 PM
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Pitch, try this the next time you find yourself on a long range with the lrhs. Dial in your 300 yard dope and don't touch the turrets again.

Then simply adjust your dope to reflect that 300 yard zero. Turn down the power to around 10 or so, and shoot the rest of your targets using only the reticle. Hits will continue to come easy.

That will show you first hand my point of all this. You don't have to have a feature rich scope to make hits. A plain Jane mildot reticle works fine if you think outside the box.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5758892 05/25/15 07:28 PM
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If you can dial elevation in, meaning you don't have capped turrets, you might as well dial all of em.

If you have capped turrets, THEN it is very important you learn to hold elevation and wind simultaneously.

I can dial elevation on all my scopes, and I also practice holding elevation and wind simultaneously. Throughout a year the only times I really need to hold both is during a stage at a match where we are crunched for time. It is rare that I hold elevation and wind on an animal. I like to be able to live on the windage line and not graph windage down to where I'm holding elevation.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5758973 05/25/15 08:29 PM
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I agree completely. But this thread is about using the mildot to extend your range more effectively over a bdc or standard crosshair.

I get asked these sort of questions all the time.Lots of guys out there can't or will not spend the coin for dedicated long range scopes. Lots of cheap options out there for plain mildot reticles with mismatched and capped turrets. My cheapo japanese sightron is but one example.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5759104 05/25/15 10:03 PM
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I understand that.

But your last post was telling Pitchfork Predator "dial in your 300 yard DOPE".

So which way are you going with this thread, dial or hold?


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5759127 05/25/15 10:19 PM
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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: bigbob_ftw] #5759237 05/25/15 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: bigbob_ftw
popcorn


Why is it every time I get into a discussion the popcorn crowd comes out?

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: J.G.] #5759248 05/25/15 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I understand that.

But your last post was telling Pitchfork Predator "dial in your 300 yard DOPE".

So which way are you going with this thread, dial or hold?


Of course I dial elevation and hold wind for most of my scopes.

Pitch is a new shooter, and I was simply suggesting an exercise to convey what I am trying to get across.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5759260 05/25/15 11:37 PM
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Speaking of the LRHS and the g2h reticle.

I will once again get on my soap box. Bushnell should be offering this reticle in the ffp in more scopes.

The elite 4500 2.5-10 and 4-16 would sure be nice. Just give us this reticle in ffp, keep the capped moa adjustments, and sell it for less than 600. I'm on board.

A guy would wreck havoc on pigs using just the g2h reticle for hold overs. On the g2h reticle, it would be easier to just get a solid 100 yard zero and work from there. Tree type reticles, such as the g2h, make holdovers much much easier.


Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5759346 05/26/15 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I understand that.

But your last post was telling Pitchfork Predator "dial in your 300 yard DOPE".

So which way are you going with this thread, dial or hold?


Of course I dial elevation and hold wind for most of my scopes.

Pitch is a new shooter, and I was simply suggesting an exercise to convey what I am trying to get across.



He's coming to my range in a couple of weeks. I will start him dialing elevation and holding wind. Then holding both starting at 200 and going to 800, so he learns how, and is exposed to it. It is rarely used, though.

Get a scope that has a Mil reticle and capped turrets, and you will have to hold everything. I still say zero at 100 yards. You get a tighter zero and do not have to wait for a day with no wind (rare occurance) to zero at 300 yards. When the temp and DA changes, your zero will still be close, but not perfect. Most hunting shots are inside 300 yards, and the guy that is going to take a poke at 500 should put in tons of range time. More than most folks are willing to commit to. In the event of a 500 yard shot on an animal, of course the wind is the larger factor. So if holding elevation from a 300 yard zero, you're still 1.5 to 2.5 Mils below the horizontal reticle. Might as well dial all the elevation in instead of graphing into space, which puts us back to exposed turrets.


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Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: J.G.] #5759376 05/26/15 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
You get a tighter zero and do not have to wait for a day with no wind (rare occurance) to zero at 300 yards.


This is why I suggested a 100 yard wind zero in my first post.

As usual, we pretty much agree on most points.
It's clear that you understand the proposed concept. I'm just not sure everyone else is on the same page.

Once a shooter has a base understanding of dope and how to apply it, it really opens up the options. And, of course, range time is paramount in applying these different concepts.

Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5759448 05/26/15 01:29 AM
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While no system is perfect there are several that work and work better than what we had for hunting scopes longer than most have been around. While Mil scopes have been around for years they were almost never seen and used in the hunting fields. It was about 14 years ago that I bought my first scope that would reliably pass a box test. Scopes have come a long way since then. BDC though hated by the dial crowd works, you just have to shoot enough to know it and it is a whole lot easier than holding windage and elevation with a duplex crosshair.

A Milldot is easier to hold windage and elevation with since you have data points on both axis but you still have to shoot a lot or have a spotter that knows their stuff and are willing to teach.

Reliable dial scopes have made the game so much easier but are not fool proof.

Bottom line long range shooting is lots easier than it once was due to technology but is still no piece of cake, someone that knows their stuff from diligent practice can make it almost look easy.

What 6.5X47 Lapua suggested in this thread is but one method that will work but only one of several.


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