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#5756895 - 05/23/15 08:18 PM simple mildot scopes for extending your hunting range
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
I sometimes take for granted the features found in many of my scopes, but you don't need a feature rich scope to extend your hunting range.

The recipe is simple, and alot of modern high power hunting cartridges will be close ballistically.

Find a lower power ( 3-9 for example) mildot scope. FFP is better, but you can make due with a SFP scope.
I chose the old japanese made sightron s1 mildots. Also, invest in a quality range finder.

Find a range that allows access to 5-600 yards.

Zero the windage at 100. Get a dead nutz elevation zero at 300 yards. Cap the turrets and forget about them.

Lets say you have a 7mm 162 sst moving around 3000 fps.

1 mil hold under is your 100 yard impact
0 is at 300
.7 hold over gets your 400 yard hit
1.0 is 450
1.5 mil is your 500


This is so dirt simple. All it requires is range time to become proficient. No dialing, and no taking your eyes off the targets. Just range the target, apply dope in your reticle, and let it rip.

You will be holding wind in empty space at 1.5 mils, but most of your wind holds at this range will be within 1 mil left or right.

Environment changes are easy too. Just run the formula through a simple program like JBM to get your dope, then head to the range and apply it.

It's waaaay past time to move on from BDC reticles.



Edited by 6.5x47Lapua (05/24/15 12:18 PM)

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#5756952 - 05/23/15 08:57 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I agree with everything except zeroing elevation at 300 yards. The whole point of Mils is to be able to hold wind and elevation, and having 5 Mils available on most scopes, that will get a long list of chamberings to 700 yards. I'm betting the majority of folks will have a hard time remembering to hold under for less than 300 yards. The majority of hunting shots are 50 to 200 yards, right? + .5 Mil for 50 yards, zero hold for 100 yards, +.3 to .5 Mil for 200 yards, +1.0 Mil for 300 yards, + 1.8 to 2.0 Mil fro 400 yards.

I agree you'll be holding out in space when you're holding elevation and wind, but it is do-able. I have guys do that very thing close to the end of the day during my class. We dial elevation and hold wind first, then come back to 200 and hold both. I tell them I'll dial elevation if given the second to do it, but I want you to know how to use both.

And yes, BDC needs to go away. When I have had friends show up with a BDC of some sort, the first thing I do is put it on 100 yard graph paper and translate it to Mil or MOA so I can use a ballistic calculator.
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#5757026 - 05/23/15 10:25 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Here is my logic behind a 300 yard zero on a 500-600 yard hog hunting rifle.

1. Wind doesn't matter as much at 100.
2. Wind really starts to come into play at 300+.
3. When zeroed at 300, you have the horizontal crosshair to get that perfect wind hold.
4. Holding under 1 mil almost always gets you close to a 100 yard zero.
5. The further you get away from the center, the less precise your wind hold will become.

This all assumes you are using a simple mildot or tmr type reticle. If a guy were using a tree style mil reticle, then absolutely use a 100 yard zero.

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#5757419 - 05/24/15 11:10 AM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
Pitchfork Predator Online   content
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Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 10833
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
Seems like a simple system.

Problems I see would be zeroing at 300 yards. Most hunters aren't going to have a range close by to do that. They are not confident to proficient shooters at 300 yards because of scope and no range nearby to practice at that distance.

Much easier to zero a good FFP mil/mil scope @ 100 yards, hold for wind and click for elevation.

Case in point:

Sapper Titan and I set up a range out to 300 yards at Erath Kids place, which was not easy to do with all the high weed growth. I'm new to the longe range game. I haven't been able to get to FiremanJG's school yet so I had no dope to go by. I'm shooting 308 178 grain Amax.

I asked Jason if he could provide me elevation dope based on what I am shooting and he was kind enough to give it to me. I'm shooting the new Bushy 4.5x18 LRHS. The hard part was setting up the range. We wanted to go further out but just could find the right set up.

Talk about fun though, we set up 100, 200, 300 and I simply dialed in the elevation dope and ponded the targets. First time I've easily shot 300. Great sight picture gave me confidence and just dialed to 1.2 mils and pounded the target.


Edited by Pitchfork Predator (05/24/15 11:17 AM)
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#5757449 - 05/24/15 11:36 AM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.

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#5757519 - 05/24/15 12:32 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.



I agree with all this.

I also stand by my statement of always zeroing at 100 yards for every Mil scope that will be used inside 1k. Getting a perfect 100 yard zero prevents the magnificatio of error at distance. Being .1 Mil off at 100 turns into a miss on some game at 300.

Zero at 100 and you are ALWAYS dialing or holding up for elevation, never down.
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#5757565 - 05/24/15 01:18 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
GLC Offline


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 4117
Loc: Burleson Texas
I am a hunter from way back and I am not trying to start an argument on scopes. Started off using just regular cross hairs on my deer gun long ago. I had never even taken a shot over a hundred yards on a deer. About 6 years ago I upgraded to a Burris Fullfield II with a BDC Reticle just to retire my Bushnell. (Told you it was a long time ago.) The Burris with the BDC did me good. Actually took a couple of deer at around 200 yards. Not saying it was "the" scope I needed but it did help me out at longer ranges. I actually used it in Jason's Hunter's Challenge last year. Did not do too bad considering I had never shot past 200 yards with my gun. BDC really helped me out, on that day, with different ranges up to 300 yards. Since that first Hunters Challenge I have learned a lot from different people on this forum and trying things out for my self. I took up reloading and am learning the criticalness of accuracy and precision. Since then I have built different rifles playing with longer range paper punching. I have also purchased different scopes and two scopes that I wound up keeping both SWFA, an 3 x 15 x 42 and a 16 x 42. Yes they are both Mill/Mill. Still learning those two puppies. I say all of this because I still have that Burris with BDC on my go to deer rifle that I use all of the time. Luckily the BDC hash marks lined very nicely at 200 and 300 yards. Don't see the need for changing it for what I use it for although I am having a blast using the other two scopes on my long range toys shooting at 500 yards +.
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#5757666 - 05/24/15 03:06 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
603Country Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4874
Loc: Central Texas
I mostly mirror what GLC says, right down to the Burris FFII and BDC. It worked fine for me, but I could see that there were limitations. So, I bought a Vortex Viper PST FFP scope. Last season was the first full deer season, though I had used it long before that for coyotes and pigs. I sighted it in for 100 yards. That worked OK, but soon I'm going to sight it in for 200 yards and try that for a while. The plan is to shoot without turret cranking at distances to about 300 yards, then use the turrets as needed for further out. I wouldn't do it like that if I just shot paper, but hunting sometimes requires me to think fast and shoot fast. All my other hunting rifles are set up with a 200 yard zero and have been for decades, so I'm going for consistency. All my coyote shots for the last year or two have been from 50 to 250 yards, so the 200 yard zero will make things fast and easy for me. I'm not suggesting that my approach is the best, but it is the best for me. I've just had the 270, 260, and 220 trajectories in my mind for so long that anything else introduces minor confusion and hesitation when the shot presents itself.

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#5757751 - 05/24/15 04:28 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
Pitchfork Predator Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 10833
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.


I understand and agree except for me the scope and sight picture wouldn't be enough on a 2nd fp 3x9 to zero accurately at 300 yards. I would barely be able to get a good bullseye at that distance with that scope. I tried shooting Sapper's 3x9 Nikon mil reticle and would of never been able to sight it in at 300 yards.
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#5757763 - 05/24/15 04:38 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: Pitchfork Predator]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.


I understand and agree except for me the scope and sight picture wouldn't be enough on a 2nd fp 3x9 to zero accurately at 300 yards. I would barely be able to get a good bullseye at that distance with that scope. I tried shooting Sapper's 3x9 Nikon mil reticle and would of never been able to sight it in at 300 yards.


That really surprises me. I have no problem hitting targets inside 7-800 yards at less than 10 power. In fact, I prefer it.

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#5757823 - 05/24/15 06:23 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Of course a proper 5-600 yard range is necessary. We have many ranges in texas that offer this and more. Range time, as always, is paramount.

It also goes without saying that a proper scope will result in easier hits.

What I'm trying to convey is that you can get quality hits at reasonable distances using just a simple mil reticle.


I understand and agree except for me the scope and sight picture wouldn't be enough on a 2nd fp 3x9 to zero accurately at 300 yards. I would barely be able to get a good bullseye at that distance with that scope. I tried shooting Sapper's 3x9 Nikon mil reticle and would of never been able to sight it in at 300 yards.


That really surprises me. I have no problem hitting targets inside 7-800 yards at less than 10 power. In fact, I prefer it.


Two questions:

Is your vision corrected or are you gifted with 20/20?

How old are your eyes compared to some of these guys in their 50's and 60's?

Real questions.
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#5757954 - 05/24/15 07:56 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Still have 20/20 at the young age of 33.

I really should be more considerate. Sounds like I take my vision for granted.

Of course, the only reason I like shooting at lower power is the all important field of view.

Using a 300 yard zero to help maximize the mildot reticle would work great no matter what power you choose to use. All that matters is that the mildot still reads in 1 mil increments. This is the real beauty of a ffp scope. You get to choose which power works best for you.

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#5757965 - 05/24/15 08:02 PM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
bigbob_ftw Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 13962
Loc: White Settlement, TX.
Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
Still have 20/20 at the young age of 33.

I really should be more considerate. Sounds like I take my vision for granted.

Of course, the only reason I like shooting at lower power is the all important field of view.

Using a 300 yard zero to help maximize the mildot reticle would work great no matter what power you choose to use. All that matters is that the mildot still reads in 1 mil increments. This is the real beauty of a ffp scope. You get to choose which power works best for you.


I did too until I hit 45. That was the last perfect thing on my body. bang
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#5758530 - 05/25/15 09:55 AM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
Pitchfork Predator Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 10833
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
I had great vision until my mid 40s, it's been getting worse ever since. Damn computers and smart phones!
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Retirement Planner

www.insured-wealth.com
469-323-8920

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#5758682 - 05/25/15 11:46 AM Re: simple scopes for extending your hunting range [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Pitch, try this the next time you find yourself on a long range with the lrhs. Dial in your 300 yard dope and don't touch the turrets again.

Then simply adjust your dope to reflect that 300 yard zero. Turn down the power to around 10 or so, and shoot the rest of your targets using only the reticle. Hits will continue to come easy.

That will show you first hand my point of all this. You don't have to have a feature rich scope to make hits. A plain Jane mildot reticle works fine if you think outside the box.

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