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long range rifles
#5748242
05/17/15 10:42 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 833
Sq2 hunter
OP
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OP
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 833 |
I'm in the process getting a new rifle and have decided on the 300 RUM I'm just not sure what rifle to buy. Just wondering what a Remington sendero stock with a Leopold Mark 4 25 power scope would be accurate out to stock.. if I don't go that route I'm debating on ordering a rifle through Dead Down Range.. what's y'all opinions!?
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748429
05/18/15 12:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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My opinion is to not get a RUM. A .300 Win Mag will do everything you need it too, with way less fuss of finding brass and the general pain loading for an over bore like the RUM.
Will the Mark 4 be a Mil/ Mil, MOA/ MOA, or a Mil reticle/ MOA turret?
The correct answer is to get a Mil reticle and Mil turret. And don't get hung up on the Mark 4, it aint all that. 20X and above is plenty to shoot a mile and beyond.
Will a mass produced rifle be accurate enough to shoot precision? These days, the answer is most likely yes. The key is to plan to load your own ammo, tuned perfectly to the barrel. As long as the stock is well married to the action, and the barrel always remains free floated from the stock, then you have most of the battle won. Bedding the action is not necessary, but it sure can't hurt, especially on a heavy recoiling rifle. Mass produced rifles have button rifled barrels, they are good shooters, but they almost always will not shoot as well as a cut rifled barrel as you would get on a custom rifle.
How much experience do you have shooting precision? I ask, because starting out on a .300 Win Mag is like taking a 16 year old and teaching him to drive on a funny car instead of a Ford Mustang. How far is long range to you, and do you want something to have the foot pounds to make a clean kill at 500 yards and beyond? To be proficient that far requires a ton of practice behind the rifle in all types of weather and wind. I shoot two to four days a week, EVERY WEEK, and a 500 yard shot on a deer or elk is something I take very seriously and might not make the shot if the situation made me a bit uncomfortable.
Moving to the Rifles/ Shotguns/ Handguns section in 3...2...1...
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748435
05/18/15 12:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748441
05/18/15 01:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 788
hermano W
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My opinion is that you can spend as much as you want to on an out of the box remington 700, and it is still just the luck of the draw whether it will be a "shooter" or not. My suggestion would be to buy a new Tikka t3 in 308 and put your choice of stocks on it and a Harris 6-9 bipod. Shoot it all you can for a year, and then get it rebarreled to 6.5 Creedmore or whatever caliber you prefer. As for a scope, just get a SWAF 5-20 HD once and for all and be done with it.
Last edited by hermano W; 05/18/15 01:11 AM.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748490
05/18/15 01:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,951
ChadTRG42
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I'm in the process getting a new rifle and have decided on the 300 RUM I'm just not sure what rifle to buy. Just wondering what a Remington sendero stock with a Leopold Mark 4 25 power scope would be accurate out to stock.. if I don't go that route I'm debating on ordering a rifle through Dead Down Range.. what's y'all opinions!? 1st- Why the 300 RUM?
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748526
05/18/15 02:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657 |
yep, its gone by the wayside, good advice from above post.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748629
05/18/15 03:17 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732
HorizonFirearms
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732 |
One thing I would like to throw in, is he says he has already decided on a 300 RUM so my question to clients is always what are you wanting to do with it or what are you wanting to accomplish. Are we killing elk at 1000 are we punching paper are we carrying it in Tajikistan after sheep. Then you can really make some decisions on what and how to build the rifle. D
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748665
05/18/15 03:53 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
Tracker
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Posts: 899 |
Curious as to why the scope needs to be mil? I and a shooting buddy have had no problems to aquire and make hits out to distance using moa scopes/spotters.
Last edited by jeff1383; 05/18/15 03:54 AM.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748675
05/18/15 04:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,636
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 3,636 |
I have heard MOA is just ..you know so last year
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5748726
05/18/15 10:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 243
300_WizzM
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 243 |
Curious as to why the scope needs to be mil? I and a shooting buddy have had no problems to aquire and make hits out to distance using moa scopes/spotters. Here we go
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5748750
05/18/15 11:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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Curious as to why the scope needs to be mil? I and a shooting buddy have had no problems to aquire and make hits out to distance using moa scopes/spotters. The short answer, Mil is easier to use. MOA has been working for a long time, but now it needs to go away.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748803
05/18/15 12:30 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899 |
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748827
05/18/15 12:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
Both will work just fine. Moa is still popular in br and f class and likely to be for a long while due to the finer adjustments.
Op unless the mk4 has the new designed turrets I would not go that route.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5748830
05/18/15 12:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
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If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : ) Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior? Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5748838
05/18/15 12:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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.308 Win 178 A-max, 2700 fps, DA 1000'-3000' 5 mph 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock
200 yards .2 Mil 300 yards .3 400 yards .4 500 yards .5 600 yards .6 700 yards .7 800 yards .9
OR
200 yards 3/4 MOA 300 yards 1 400 yards 1 1/2 500 yards 2 600 yards 2 1/2 700 yards 3 800 yards 3 1/2
Now the wind has increased to 7-8 mph, quick add 50% to that wind hold! Now it gusted to 10-12 mph, double the original wind hold. Next day the wind is 1-3 mph, now you cut it all in half.
Which is easier to mutiply or divide, and which is easier to memorize?
MOA had it's place in slow fire bench rest, it would have an advantage over a Mil scope in that arena. But change the situation to dynamic, high speed shooting (hunting) and Mils have a clear advantage. I can use both MOA or Mil but I do not like MOA at all since I don't shoot benchrest. I've had more than one student come out with a MOA scope and at the end of the day tell me they're going home and putting them up for sale to get Mil/ Mil.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: patriot07]
#5748907
05/18/15 01:55 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
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If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : ) Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior? Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do. This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others.
Last edited by jeff1383; 05/18/15 02:07 PM.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748927
05/18/15 02:09 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
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My whole point was that's an objective opinion and more of a preference. I say to the OP get whatever scope and shoot whatever cartridge you prefer.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5748932
05/18/15 02:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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Posts: 41,171 |
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : ) Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior? Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do. This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others. This debate is decades old. MOA has fallen way out of favor, and 90% of precision, non-benchrest, shooters use Mil. Let's move on.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5748941
05/18/15 02:19 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
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And I get that. A friend of mine told me his main reason for switching is based on competitive shooting. Not because he was at a disadvantage based on skill but purely because that's what the majority field did. Spotters and ro's call misses by mils which puts a moa shooter at a disadvantage. I would likely switch myself if that were my case. So fireman I see where you're coming from.
Last edited by jeff1383; 05/18/15 02:24 PM.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: J.G.]
#5748954
05/18/15 02:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716 |
.308 Win 178 A-max, 2700 fps, DA 1000'-3000' 5 mph 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock
200 yards .2 Mil 300 yards .3 400 yards .4 500 yards .5 600 yards .6 700 yards .7 800 yards .9
OR
200 yards 3/4 MOA 300 yards 1 400 yards 1 1/2 500 yards 2 600 yards 2 1/2 700 yards 3 800 yards 3 1/2
Now the wind has increased to 7-8 mph, quick add 50% to that wind hold! Now it gusted to 10-12 mph, double the original wind hold. Next day the wind is 1-3 mph, now you cut it all in half.
Which is easier to mutiply or divide, and which is easier to memorize?
MOA had it's place in slow fire bench rest, it would have an advantage over a Mil scope in that arena. But change the situation to dynamic, high speed shooting (hunting) and Mils have a clear advantage. I can use both MOA or Mil but I do not like MOA at all since I don't shoot benchrest. I've had more than one student come out with a MOA scope and at the end of the day tell me they're going home and putting them up for sale to get Mil/ Mil. It's just because you have to somplify things for firemen, that's all
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5749005
05/18/15 03:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,564 |
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : ) Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior? Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do. This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others. I think fireman's post already explained that.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: patriot07]
#5749054
05/18/15 03:26 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899 |
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : ) Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior? Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do. This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others. I think fireman's post already explained that. I'll take that as a never had that experience
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: jeff1383]
#5749166
05/18/15 04:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
Extreme Tracker
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I'll take that as a never had that experience I was smart enough to do the research and buy a car the first time. JMHO - it's worth what you paid for it. Chad and fireman both have far more experience than I do and probably explained it better.
Last edited by patriot07; 05/18/15 05:38 PM.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: Sq2 hunter]
#5749179
05/18/15 04:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,951
ChadTRG42
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Honestly, MOA or mils, it doesn't matter. But if you were starting out to learn, there's no question mils is a easier method to learn and understand faster. I started with MOA, and progressed to mils. I have both and run both, but anything new gets mil/mil.
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Re: long range rifles
[Re: patriot07]
#5749203
05/18/15 05:17 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 899
jeff1383
Tracker
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Tracker
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I'll take that as a never had that experience I was smart enough to do the research and buy a car the first time. Nobody cares about your 1988 Hyundai elantra.
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