I don't want to use rangefinder because I can learn to estimate.

I see nothing wrong with putting in the practice to learn those things. What if I find myself in a situation someday with an inoperable range finder? FTR, I've made wind calls up to 500m and been darn near perfect with peep sights. I just haven't practiced that in over 10 years.

Rifleman for 100's of years didn't have rangefinders and were successful.

Do you think that scope is just as good as more expensive brands?

I really don't understand what the big deal is.

It's not that hard to get that accuracy with the right gear and adherence to shooting basics.

I'm trying to help you won't let me. Get the rangefinder, estimate range, check it with the range finder, and you will get better at estimation. You will also only plan on estimating if your rangefinder goes down for some reason. Riflemen also missed many first shots because they misjudged the distance. Then you're in a spray and pray situation. Miss a coyote and he will not give you a second chance. Miss a hog and you MIGHT get a follow up shot.

I have that rifle scope's big brother the 3.5-21X on loan from Bushnell. It is some of the best glass I have ever looked through and very nice turrets. The reticle is not too busy. I will probably buy that 3-12 for my own AR-15

Now that I see you qualified your statement a little more precise I agree it's not that big of a deal.

"Out of my 10 rifles only 2 will shoot 1\4 moa. Both have match barrels and use reloads. I had to check my target twice when the .223 did it so even I was surprised. I thought I had one hole and several flyers. I don't know why folks make a big deal out of someone claiming to shoot 1\4 moa. IMO, most of it is the quality of rifle. The fundamentals are basic and merely require repetition. I guess it's also relative as there's different levels or natural talent."

The fact that your AR once shot A .2 MOA group at 100 is a notable feat and I admit somewhere I still have a picture of the group with my 6x45mm that best I could measure was .090 but that does not make it a .100 weapon. 603country pretty much nailed it with his post.

I will add that the reason you read and hear about all those unbelievable long shots from history long past IS due to the fact they did not have rangefinders to show that 900 yard shot across the canyon was really only 400 yards.

Seen more guys than I can count say "that looks like its 500 yards out". Bounce a laser on it and it's 250. Show them a real 500 yard distance and they say WOW! Show them 1000 yards and it looks near impossible to them to be able to hit anything that far away.

I see what you're saying JG, but I thought I needed training to learn to estimate better. Basically what you're saying is that using a rangefinder will eventually allow me to guess correctly?

I like that Bushnell scope but I don't know much about them.

Thanks for understanding me. Both those have done it repeatedly though since I found the perfect load. I've only been loading for a few years and still am trying to learn all the little details for accuracy. I'd like to see .1 moa someday.

Been carrying a range finder with me almost daily for two years and am still on the same battery. Use it every time you have time. Meaning if you're a ways off from hogs and have to few seconds to range them do it. In the event of an "oh chit" moment when you have to snap shoot then you will have had time seeing known ranges and will be better prepared to make an educated guess, because that is all it will be.

Bushnell aint what it used to be. They are turning out fantastic optics that will compete with all the big boys. In fact there was a link in this section a while back where $1500+ scopes were blind tested. Bushnell beat a couple of Night Force, a Schmitt and Bender, several Leupolds and the list goes on.

The bushnell I linked to is a great scope that has no rivals at that price

Sure. Quarter MOA rifles grow on trees. I'm the tooth fairy and I've known you since you were about seven years old.

To me the scope choice is almost dictated by the barrel profile, length and overall AR
weight.

I have a 20" barrel varmint AR with a 4-16x56 scope and a 16" barrel govt. profile fluted
AR with a 1-4x24 or holosight I put on it.

Add the lighting changes over the course of a day to distant targets and it becomes very difficult to estimate range by sight. I've tried to get better for years but I sure depend on a rangefinder.

Back when I was a fanatical golfer, I was great at judging range. Nowdays I'm not good at either, so I use a rangefinder.