I've had a slew of 223ai's and love them dearly, but finally have settled on plain jane .223 for my needs. 223ai, 24" barrel, pointed 82 berger, and 8208xbr was at 3010fps with no pressure. .490 G1 BC on the pointed 82 berger too, so I was 2.1 in the wind at 1k.

At 22', sending 75gr Swift Scirocco's at 2950 put the dirt nap to a lot of deer and hogs. Wicked round.

I went back to plain 223 because I am only seeing about a 100fps difference between formed brass and regular brass, both being lapua cases and 8208 stoked with 82 bergers. To me, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Pipes, I'm glad you joined in on the conversation. It was you finishing ahead of me in some club matches,with a 223, that got me thinking about all this.

I recently had to decide between 223 and AI, and did like pipes and picked the plain old 223. If I need more grunt, I'll go to the 220 or the 260.

Another minor consideration is that I may eventually get another 223, and it's just a bit simpler to load one round for both.

If you're basing the "to AI or not to AI" decision solely on velocity gain, then it's not that compelling to do IMO. You're correct that the velocity gain is maybe 100 fps at most. However, velocity gain isn't the only benefit. The superior case design provides less brass working, less trimming, and longer case life. Once you have the reloading dies, from that point forward, there are no additional costs or hassles involved in exchange for the improved case life since you can still shoot the standard SAAMI ammo. If you're buying a new rifle without an AI chamber, then I can see not bothering with reaming the chamber for the AI version. However, if either the factory rifle is available in an AI cartridge or you're building a new custom rifle from scratch, why not go AI? It costs the same amount to ream an AI chamber as the standard SAAMI chamber. You can still have fun at the range and shoot critters with the rifle with "fire-forming" shots using the plain vanilla rounds. If you reload anyway, you're always dealing with fire-formed cases, whether those fire-formed cases are "plain-Jane" SAAMI or AI. Even if the velocity gain is minimal, it still doesn't suck to get a few extra FPS, and I'll take the longer case life. Seems to me a worthwhile tradeoff for spending an extra $30 on a set of reloading dies.

Anyone hunt with a .223 ai? Looks like a great hunting round for predators or deer.

I've killed a lot of deer and hogs with 223ai and regular 223. Assuming you're twisted properly, the 75 Scirocco is just not fair. The Nosler partitions and 62 TSX's come in a close second.

I really like that list of bullets and add the 62gr Sirocco to te list, still like the 75 gr version better though.

Pipes,

You and your twenty twos is just you being stubborn.

And I've always thought, as a reloader, the extra velocity you gain from a 223 to a 22-250 isn't worth burning 1.4 times the powder.

The 223 is a much more efficient cartridge in that regard.

All mine is twisted for is the 60 grain partition, but it has never come close to failing me for deer/hogs.

It's a fairly substantial amount of velocity gain, typically in the 400-500fps realm. While 223 is efficient there is no replacement for displacement.

^^Truth^^

When I loaded .22-250 for 55 gr bullets they left the muzzle at 3780 fps. Now that it is a 1:8" twist it has 75 gr A-maxes leaving at 3200 fps.

No replacement for displacement.

If it was all about efficient then then they should have stopped at the .222 .... Or The .221 Fireball runs 40gr bullets at 3500+ on 16gr of powder. My 22-250 load runs the 52gr Bergers at 3990fps so I take advantage of the displacement

Really though what puzzles me are the folks that get a 22-250 and load it to 3300fps or so and talk about how accurate it is and toll the virtues of longer barrel life What the ???? Just get a 223 then and go slow ge'ez.

The point is that for many purposes, the lower velocity loads for the 22-250 are adequate and they are also easy on the barrel. - But if the occasion calls for higher velocity, then you have that option.

With the .223, you do not have that option.

For those purposes then you should bring out the .223
Surely you are not suggesting that someone could possibly get by with just one rifle..... If so I would ask you to please stay west of the Pecos as I would not like my wife to hear this blasphemy.

Well, I own more rifles than I tend to use...

The one that I use most is a Winchester 1885 in 270WSM. Most of the time, I shoot target mouse loads that are equivalent to a 30-30 in velocity and energy. They are extremely accurate, besides being cheap to load and having almost no recoil. For whitetails or pigs, 270WSM starting loads give me top 270 Winchester velocity and energy, which is plenty for those. If I get a chance to go after elk, or might be taking longer shots at pronghorns for example, then full power 270WSM loads have plenty of grunt, and can reach right out there.

My theory is that shooting full-power loads at paper, or smaller critters like whitetails and pigs is just burning up your barrel and making extra noise - to no purpose. I've fired around 460 rounds of my target loads - and the bore-scope says that my barrel still looks brand new. If I'd fired that many full-power loads, there would be heat cracking in the neck area, etc..

Shooting one rifle a lot more than the others increases the chances of you getting to be good with that particular rifle. On days that I can't put five rounds into a dime-sized group at 100 yards with the 1885, my son makes fun of me.

Same goes for my .223 bolt gun. I rarely shoot full-power loads through it because all I use it for is target shooting, and the paper never knows the difference if the 55 grain bullets are only loafing along at 2000 fps.

I used to always load for top velocity, and tried to convince myself that top velocity also meant top accuracy. What I have discovered since is that the lighter loads are not just more versatile, cheaper, and easier on the gun, but that they are quite often more accurate.

When I need all the grunt that the cartridge can muster, I use it... When I don't, I don't.