texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
nmmuledeerhunter, Dzia-Dzia, TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed
71989 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,416
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,029
Posts9,719,584
Members86,989
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
"magic" feed - opinions #5723087 04/30/15 10:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,000
tlk Offline OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,000
Many of you know of the recent promotion of a protein feed with claims it will add 30-40 inches to your deer in a year. I am not saying it is possible or not but it is being heavily promoted and sold and is significantly more costly than most other feeds - my question is how can it really be measured as to its success? Unless a ranch has pictures of most of its bucks to compare horn growth from year to year how can it be determined if it really is that superior to other feeds?

There are also so many other factors that affect horn growth - rainfall, water availability, etc. I guess one way to measure it would be in a controlled, high fenced, pen setting where one feed was provided to captured bucks and a different feed provided to other bucks in a different pen and then see what the results are.

If you compare the actual ingredients in this feed to others there does not appear to be much difference - it is higher in some areas but lower in others. In addition, I believe it contains peanuts/cottonseed which must be tested for toxins that can cause herd issues.

I am always skeptical of anything that is the latest and greatest miracle - but this may be the real deal - I am still on the fence.

What are the thoughts?

Last edited by tlk; 04/30/15 10:36 AM.

You can't fix stupid
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723153 04/30/15 11:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
D
don k Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
Kind of one of those if sounds too good to be true it probably isn't. You could say the same about any protein feed and how would you prove or disprove the claim.

Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723246 04/30/15 12:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
Originally Posted By: tlk
Many of you know of the recent promotion of a protein feed with claims it will add 30-40 inches to your deer in a year. I am not saying it is possible or not but it is being heavily promoted and sold and is significantly more costly than most other feeds - [b][b]my question is how can it really be measured as to its success? Unless a ranch has pictures of most of its bucks to compare horn growth from year to year [/b]how can it be determined if it really is that superior to other feeds?

There are also so many other factors that affect horn growth - rainfall, water availability, etc. I guess one way to measure it would be in a controlled, high fenced, pen setting where one feed was provided to captured bucks and a different feed provided to other bucks in a different pen and then see what the results are.

If you compare the actual ingredients in this feed to others there does not appear to be much difference - it is higher in some areas but lower in others. In addition, I believe it contains peanuts/cottonseed which must be tested for toxins that can cause herd issues.

I am always skeptical of anything that is the latest and greatest miracle - but this may be the real deal - I am still on the fence.

What are the thoughts?



They do have multiple years of photos of the same bucks. I know this because I took many of them. They also allow most deer to reach maturity. I'm not talking about 4.5 to 5.5 years old but 8.9 or 10 years old before they are harvested or simply die of old age. I'm not in the feed business and I don't care what anyone feeds their deer but I can tell you the before and after photos you see posted of the deer are the real thing!
[/b]


A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723255 04/30/15 12:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1
1860.colt Offline
emoji colt.45
Offline
emoji colt.45
1
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
3rd try... Key word claims .. A lot depends on health of deer coming out of rut & winter age, & genes. Some like levis, i prefure wranglers... We had mild winter & plenty of rain... once deer hit peak weight rest of protien goes ta antler growth & weight gain for fawns... Whats the price on the magic feed ? flag



i'm postaddic
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723258 04/30/15 12:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
Not all feeds are created equal. You can not base success on one years growth to the next since no two deer are the same age two years in a row. You can relive a year. Testing two separate pens or pastures of deer is not going to work either. Just not going to get a true test with whitetail deer. There are no miracle feeds that have genetics on the label.
No two ranches will have the same genetics or the same habitat. Soil and plant communities change from ranch to ranch no matter what size the ranch is. Rainfall and time of rainfall is critical. Amount of forb growth is critical also.
What can help is to take browse samples from your ranch to see what your browse is lacking in. Browse diversity can vary greatly from ranch to ranch. One ranch might have many class 1 and 2 browse plants and the next one only a few. I was on a ranch yesterday helping with a browse survey. The ranch did not have the variety of class 1 and 2 plants you would expect for South Texas. Some were in large quantities and others in very low amounts. The terrain varied from river bottom to gravely soils. The cover and canopy went from dense to somewhat open. Samples were taken to see what was lacking in those plants that could be added into their feed for that ranch.
A whitetail hardened antler is 44% protein, 22% calcium and 11% phosphorous. Those numbers have to come from somewhere- soil, browse, forbes, water, their body or a supplement. Ratios and sources of these minerals is very critical.
Feed labels may appear to be the same but that is not always true. Sources of proteins can vary greatly. Some feeds only use a couple of protein sources while other use 10 or more. Some protein sources are easier to digest and others not so easy. If your feed has the later then what benefit is that feed to your deer? Mineral/trace minerals sources should match the needs of your ranch. The ratio and types of the minerals/trace minerals is even more important to your ranch.
Rumen health is very important also. If you are driving your vehicle then you are putting constant pressure on the fuel pedal, if you let up the vehicle slows or stops when you apply the brake. The rumen on a deer is the same way when he is eating he is putting nutrients into his digestive system. If his rumen is not healthy due to something he ate, then he is not eating. If he is not eating then he is not feeding his body and antlers. The large and small intestines are where those nutrients are absorbed into the bucks system and to his antlers. If not, then those nutrients flow out the rear end. When you have an upset stomach do you eat as much?
Also many are now going to more feed stations and more feeders per station. They are wanting 6-8 deer per feeder and up to 3 feeders per station depending on amount of deer. Shade or closeness of the station to shade is also now be shown to be important. Water or how close the station is to water is very important. A recent study was done with bucks to see how important feed, water and shade were to each other as far as utilization of all. The study area that the deer had to walk a distance from shade, to feed then a distance to water had the lowest intake of water and protein consumption. The highest was with feed and water both in the shade. There was a 21% and 29% less of water/feed consumed when the animal had to leave shade to eat or drink. Bottom line is they ate and drank less when it was out of their comfort zone.


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723305 04/30/15 01:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
What we try to do for a deer herd is to have the best density, age structure, habitat, water availability, protein supplement, food plot system and/or mineral supplement we can afford to offer them. The deer herd then has to do what they can with those that are available. We are trying get them to show us their genetic potential every year. Every bite they take should be a step in that direction.


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: Elkhunter49] #5723356 04/30/15 01:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,000
tlk Offline OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,000
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
Originally Posted By: tlk
Many of you know of the recent promotion of a protein feed with claims it will add 30-40 inches to your deer in a year. I am not saying it is possible or not but it is being heavily promoted and sold and is significantly more costly than most other feeds - [b][b]my question is how can it really be measured as to its success? Unless a ranch has pictures of most of its bucks to compare horn growth from year to year [/b]how can it be determined if it really is that superior to other feeds?

There are also so many other factors that affect horn growth - rainfall, water availability, etc. I guess one way to measure it would be in a controlled, high fenced, pen setting where one feed was provided to captured bucks and a different feed provided to other bucks in a different pen and then see what the results are.

If you compare the actual ingredients in this feed to others there does not appear to be much difference - it is higher in some areas but lower in others. In addition, I believe it contains peanuts/cottonseed which must be tested for toxins that can cause herd issues.

I am always skeptical of anything that is the latest and greatest miracle - but this may be the real deal - I am still on the fence.

What are the thoughts?



They do have multiple years of photos of the same bucks. I know this because I took many of them. They also allow most deer to reach maturity. I'm not talking about 4.5 to 5.5 years old but 8.9 or 10 years old before they are harvested or simply die of old age. I'm not in the feed business and I don't care what anyone feeds their deer but I can tell you the before and after photos you see posted of the deer are the real thing!
[/b]


I do not doubt the quality of the deer - but it is my understanding this feed was only started after the end of the previous season so the deer essentially only had a few months on it before horn growth began. Can a feed be responsible for 30-40 inches of horn growth in that short a time frame? Again - don't know the answer - just curious


You can't fix stupid
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723368 04/30/15 01:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown Online Content
kind of a big deal
Online Content
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
No way can it contribute that much first year.



Unless you where on year five of a fiver drought and that's all they had to eat. In that case they didn't grow that much, they just caught up.

Most new feed programs benefit the babies the most, because they grow up with it, there for hit it more.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723369 04/30/15 01:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
All I can tell is the body weights and added inches on the racks last year were incredible. The deer were as heavy as I've ever seen. If any deer has that much fat stored in their body I've got to believe they are going to grow their racks to their max potential no matter where they are.


A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: Elkhunter49] #5723373 04/30/15 02:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown Online Content
kind of a big deal
Online Content
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
All I can tell is the body weights and added inches on the racks last year were incredible. The deer were as heavy as I've ever seen. If any deer has that much fat stored in their body I've got to believe they are going to grow their racks to their max potential no matter where they are.


What was the rain fall last year compared to last four


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723377 04/30/15 02:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 21,271
S
SniperRAB Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 21,271
Wet Spring

Good Horn...


Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5723379 04/30/15 02:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
All I can tell is the body weights and added inches on the racks last year were incredible. The deer were as heavy as I've ever seen. If any deer has that much fat stored in their body I've got to believe they are going to grow their racks to their max potential no matter where they are.


What was the rain fall last year compared to last four

What was the grazing pressure from livestock like? Did they do any prescribed burns? What was the water situation like? Did they add more feeders?


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: stxranchman] #5723404 04/30/15 02:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown Online Content
kind of a big deal
Online Content
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
All I can tell is the body weights and added inches on the racks last year were incredible. The deer were as heavy as I've ever seen. If any deer has that much fat stored in their body I've got to believe they are going to grow their racks to their max potential no matter where they are.


What was the rain fall last year compared to last four

What was the grazing pressure from livestock like? Did they do any prescribed burns? What was the water situation like? Did they add more feeders?


Very true!!!


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: stxranchman] #5723417 04/30/15 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
All I can tell is the body weights and added inches on the racks last year were incredible. The deer were as heavy as I've ever seen. If any deer has that much fat stored in their body I've got to believe they are going to grow their racks to their max potential no matter where they are.


What was the rain fall last year compared to last four

What was the grazing pressure from livestock like? Did they do any prescribed burns? What was the water situation like? Did they add more feeders?


Rain fall was below what is determined to be average year. Total for the year was 9". No changes in livestock and no prescribed burns allowed because of oil field production. Water situation is normal for the ranch. Plenty of water available. Feed was started in January 2013.

Last edited by Elkhunter49; 04/30/15 02:25 PM.

A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: Elkhunter49] #5723418 04/30/15 02:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
All I can tell is the body weights and added inches on the racks last year were incredible. The deer were as heavy as I've ever seen. If any deer has that much fat stored in their body I've got to believe they are going to grow their racks to their max potential no matter where they are.


What was the rain fall last year compared to last four

What was the grazing pressure from livestock like? Did they do any prescribed burns? What was the water situation like? Did they add more feeders?


Rain fall was below what is determined to be average year. No changes in livestock and no prescribed burns allowed because of oil field production. Water situation is normal for the ranch. Plenty of water available.

When rainfall fell is more critical than the amount. It could have rained 20" all year and it all fell from Jan till May. That will make a huge difference.


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: stxranchman] #5723423 04/30/15 02:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
Rain fall was below what is determined to be average year. No changes in livestock and no prescribed burns allowed because of oil field production. Water situation is normal for the ranch. Plenty of water available. [/quote]
When rainfall fell is more critical than the amount. It could have rained 20" all year and it all fell from Jan till May. That will make a huge difference. [/quote]

Agreed, It's hard to beat a wet May and June


A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723428 04/30/15 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
E
Elkhunter49 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
E
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,070
Guys I really couldn't care less what anyone feeds their wildlife or their livestock either for that matter but I know what I witnessed with my own eyes from one year to the next!


A true friend reaches for your hand but touches your heart.
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: Elkhunter49] #5723436 04/30/15 02:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
Rain fall was below what is determined to be average year. No changes in livestock and no prescribed burns allowed because of oil field production. Water situation is normal for the ranch. Plenty of water available.

When rainfall fell is more critical than the amount. It could have rained 20" all year and it all fell from Jan till May. That will make a huge difference. [/quote]

Agreed, It's hard to beat a wet May and June[/quote]
No rain in those months is to late IME. A wet March and April are key to big deer in South Texas.


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723437 04/30/15 02:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1
1860.colt Offline
emoji colt.45
Offline
emoji colt.45
1
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
scratch tis cattle ranching 101... put cattle in pasture, whin ready ta sell put in corral fatten em up... Did better in Ag than English... Some pastures 1 cow ta every 1 acrer, different pasture it takes 2 acrer's... flag



i'm postaddic
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: Elkhunter49] #5723446 04/30/15 02:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
T
therancher Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
Really the only way to prove something like this is to use penned deer from similar genetics same age in side by side pens.

If it really is making a 30-40" difference they claim, you'll see enough of a difference in the pen that is fed that feed.

No way that you would be able to prove that claim scientifically on pasture deer.

On stuff like this I like to ride behind the wave. Stick to what works and let others prove or disprove it.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: Elkhunter49] #5723454 04/30/15 02:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,000
tlk Offline OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,000
Originally Posted By: Elkhunter49
Guys I really couldn't care less what anyone feeds their wildlife or their livestock either for that matter but I know what I witnessed with my own eyes from one year to the next!


Not questioning what you saw whatsoever. But I am questioning that it was a direct result of changing from one feed to another. Again not saying it could not happen - just asking how the claim is proven? And especially in that short of a time frame. I am totally open to hear the facts - I am just not sure how or if it can be factually proven?


You can't fix stupid
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723466 04/30/15 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811
T
TxAg Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
T
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811
I don't know whether the feed can be given all the credit here. This ranch in question is definitely an extreme example of management. They have many variables working in their favor: incredible age structure, optimum herd density, bucks that have been used to eating protein since birth, lots and lots of protein feeders, high % protein native browse, controlled predators, etc. Many elements working in their favor beyond feed. This ranch has been producing awesome deer for years.

Now, is the feed going to take them even further? Maybe. But, I would challenge the notion that you are going to start feeding this feed at a ranch that is just getting started and see anything close to those types of gains.

ElkHunter49 has taken some great pictures out there, always enjoy them.

Last edited by TxAg; 04/30/15 03:03 PM.
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723632 04/30/15 04:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
W
Western Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
W
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,010
I have never found a true "magic bean", I have seen a lot of clever marketing.


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723680 04/30/15 04:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1
1860.colt Offline
emoji colt.45
Offline
emoji colt.45
1
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
2cents Was at walmart seen the gal jug of Roasted Corn Freaks ... It claims ta be a supercharged deet attractant. Hogs travel the creek, not inta the corn mixed diesel route.. So figured would try mixing with corn, it has a light oder, & shouldn't hurt deer... Have tried several way's, got a drip going were deer can walk up ta it an lick bottem, so far plain old corn works best.. Also tried the cornhole buried it first, ants found it so hung it, bees & wasps... Also the poppers took top off pringles can for them ta sit, drilled hole in middle of popper, & center of lid glued q-tip ta hold popper.. So far nothing impressive... Theirs lots of claims.. Some claim i'm muyloco ask the doctors 2outa3 disagree... flag



i'm postaddic
Re: "magic" feed - opinions [Re: tlk] #5723733 04/30/15 05:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
J
John Humbert Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
J
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
I think there is a way to "prove" the feed contributes that much. STOP using it and see what happens. If a deer adds "30 or 40" inches in one year because of the magic feed - then stop using it and see what happens the next year. If the deer doesn't add anything or better yet - DROPS inches, then it would be very interesting. But if he continues add, then scream BS and walk away.

There is no genetics in a bag - you can't add 30" to a deer that doesn't have the genetics to produce it - no matter what you feed him. And a deer who has the potential to add 30" in a year could probably add a lot of that if nothing really special was done (simple protein, mineral, water).

In my simple mind, rather than looking at the horns - I would look at body weight and muscular development. If the deer is packing on the weight and lean muscle mass, then I betcha he's going to be growing the best horns he is able to grow.

But if you want to believe there is some magic feed that can grow 30-40" of antler where your regular balance feed can't - then by all means believe it. You can order Extenze too while you're at it!

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3