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Kimber rifle ? #5716878 04/26/15 05:08 PM
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opinions? accuracy? customer service?


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5716884 04/26/15 05:15 PM
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I'd go Cooper over Kimber.


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5716895 04/26/15 05:30 PM
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I didn't have a good experience with the one I had. Maybe if I was a handloader I could have made it do better. Word in reading around is they can be hit or miss.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5716896 04/26/15 05:31 PM
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I didn't like the one that I had. Had great looking wood on it but it did not shoot as well as I would like for something that expensive.

Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5716923 04/26/15 06:12 PM
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I dont see the value in them

I've shot and handled several and for whst you get I think there are better options


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5716983 04/26/15 07:01 PM
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Sounds a lot like their 1911s. Nice but over priced for for what you get.


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: TFF Caribou] #5716985 04/26/15 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Sounds a lot like their 1911s. Nice but over priced for for what you get.


Pretty much. Cooper and Nosler make better rifles for the same coin


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5717014 04/26/15 07:27 PM
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It all depends on what you're looking for. If you want a really lightweight rifle that looks good, the Kimbers are in a class by themselves. I have an 84M Classic Select in .260 and an 8400 Montana in .325 WSM. Both shoot quite well -- right at or slightly under 1 MOA. They are like any other factory rifle: some shoot well, some don't. There are no guarantees with factory rifles. Yes, the average Cooper will likely outshoot them. I have 2 Cooper M21s that are spooky accurate. On the other hand, Coopers are much heavier. I like Kimber's tiny little mini-Mauser like action. Kimber fit and finish is pretty good. The Montana version has what I believe is the highest quality synthetic stock you can get on a factory rifle.

If a Kimber doesn't shoot, most often the culprit is the mag box binding in the stock. If that's the case, simply sand the bottom of the mag box so it isn't tightly sandwiched between the bottom metal and the underside of the action, putting stress on the action. A little bedding in the front receiver ring doesn't hurt any either. Most factory rifles can benefit from a little TLC to get them to shoot at their best, so this is nothing unusual and is an easy remedy. From what I'm seeing, the current production Kimbers are better than they were a few years ago.

I think they are nice rifles for what they are. You have to let pencil profile barrels cool a bit more between shots to get the best groups at the range. In the field, you appreciate the lighter weight.


Ted
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5717205 04/26/15 10:14 PM
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thanks, had heard negs about the Kimbers, so now its between cooper (my 21 is great shooter) and nosler patriot


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5717278 04/26/15 11:19 PM
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Keep in mind that a lot of the negative you hear is from people who don't own one. I have 2 of them and haven't experienced the negatives folks talk about, nor has 2 of my friends who own one.

From my experience, the Coopers will definitely shoot better on average, but they will also shoot better than most other factory rifles too. They're nowhere near as lightweight, if that's an important factor for you. The Kimbers are the lightest factory rifles made. Both have great triggers. The Nosler rifle is nice, but it's also more expensive, and about a pound heavier than the Kimber in the same chambering. Weight may not be important to you, but is worth mentioning.

A lot depends on which chambering you want, whether you reload or shoot factory ammo only, and which bullets you plan to shoot in that chambering. Both Kimber and Nosler used too slow a twist rate on some chamberings.

I love Coopers, but I'm not so enamored by their big game rifles as I am their rimfires and varmint rifles.


Ted
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5718111 04/27/15 03:09 PM
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I have just read too many negative reports to take a gamble on one over the years.


Cooper will make a light gun if you ask.
Mike Hudgins built me a light 25-06 a few years ago.

I love the Nosler rifles.
I have a Trophy Grade 280AI.

Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5718180 04/27/15 03:47 PM
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Do you consider coopers nosler and kimber factory rifles?

When I hear factory I think Winchester, Remington, ruger, savage etc.

To me cooper kimber nosler etc. go in a different category.


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5718231 04/27/15 04:23 PM
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I don't have a Cooper or Kimber but have all the rest. The most accurate I have out the box without using my handloads is a browning A-bolt. I prefer rem 700's Tikka's.

Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5718278 04/27/15 04:58 PM
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The most accurate rifle I've owned with factory loads was a Browning A-bolt stainless stalker in .300 Winchester magnum.

With Federal premium 180 gran loads, the first three shots out of a cold, clean barrel went into 1/2 inch, each and every time.


Kind regards, charlesb


Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: redchevy] #5718350 04/27/15 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Do you consider coopers nosler and kimber factory rifles?



Kimber is most definitely a factory rifle. I would call Cooper and Nosler "semi-custom."

The former is a factory rifle in every sense of the word, in that it has limited to no options available, and is made in high volume on a production line with little hand work.
Cooper and Nosler are semi-customs because they are made in lower volume with some hand fitting and a choice of options, but isn't a full custom in that you don't get to select each component of the build and don't really get to select a unique stock design. You have limited choices on what you can get.

Cooper does do some custom work, but you are still limited by their actions and their barrels.


Ted
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: RifleDude] #5718412 04/27/15 06:31 PM
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"Accuracy" in a factory rifle is always a crap shoot. Name any brand of mass-produced factory rifle at any price level, and someone out there has had a bad experience with it or got a lemon. That just goes with the territory with anything mass-produced to meet a price point. It's human nature for folks to elaborate more about bad experiences of something than good experiences, and people tend to remember and repeat the bad more than the good.

Then, there are those who are unwilling or unable to tweak a rifle to get it to shoot its best. I realize that when you spend a lot of money for a rifle, you should expect that the little details are taken care of and the thing must shoot. That's all fine and good, but the reality is that it doesn't always happen, and usually the tweaks needed to correct whatever ails the rifle are simple, easy to do, and inexpensive. There are very few of my rifles that I haven't tweaked in some way to improve performance, whether through epoxy/ pillar bedding, trigger tweaks, recrowning, removing material in the forend so the stock isn't binding against the barrel, shortening the forward-most mount base screw so it isn't contacting the barrel threads, etc.

Bolt action rifles are very simple mechanical devices. As long as you have a fundamentally good barrel, most any bolt action rifle can be made to shoot well. So, if I find a rifle that has good ergos, handling qualities and other features I like, I never rule out buying it based on a smattering of negative anecdotal evidence because I know from past experience that there's a very high probability that I'll be able to get it to shoot well, and for me, that's part of the fun.

Accuracy with any rifle is the product of a good barrel, optimal twist rate for the bullets you're shooting, optimal throat geometry for said bullet and magazine length constraints, stress-free and tight stock bedding, a decent trigger, and optimized loads for the system. I've heard all the Kimber complaints. I initially had issues with my 84M .260 not shooting to expectations. The solution was to sand a bit off the bottom of the magazine box so it wasn't binding between the bottom metal and underside of the action, a little bedding in the recoil lug area, and tweaking my handloads. Easy, inexpensive fixes for an otherwise sweet handling, beautiful rifle. Now, it shoots under 1 MOA. My 8400 Montana .325 WSM shot fantastic right out of the box with no tweaking whatsoever.

I'm a Cooper fanatic, and if the very best accuracy is paramount, they are hard to beat right out of the box. My Kimbers won't quite shoot with my Coopers, but then the former are 2LB lighter rifles with pencil profile barrels, so it isn't really a fair comparison. Coopers and Kimbers are two totally different rifles with different design philosophies and they both excel in different ways. The Nosler seems like a nice rifle from the samples I've handled, but I've never shot one, so I have no basis of comparison. It's more expensive than the Kimber, though.

Here's my Kimber 84M .260. It was cranky at first, but well worth the TLC:








Last edited by RifleDude; 04/27/15 06:32 PM.

Ted
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5718437 04/27/15 06:47 PM
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'Dude...well said. And a most beautimous piece of Kimber Porn indeed.
Ron


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5719678 04/28/15 01:32 PM
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Good info rifledude. Sweet rig. up


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: RifleDude] #5719945 04/28/15 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: RifleDude
"Accuracy" in a factory rifle is always a crap shoot. Name any brand of mass-produced factory rifle at any price level, and someone out there has had a bad experience with it or got a lemon. That just goes with the territory with anything mass-produced to meet a price point. It's human nature for folks to elaborate more about bad experiences of something than good experiences, and people tend to remember and repeat the bad more than the good.

Then, there are those who are unwilling or unable to tweak a rifle to get it to shoot its best. I realize that when you spend a lot of money for a rifle, you should expect that the little details are taken care of and the thing must shoot. That's all fine and good, but the reality is that it doesn't always happen, and usually the tweaks needed to correct whatever ails the rifle are simple, easy to do, and inexpensive. There are very few of my rifles that I haven't tweaked in some way to improve performance, whether through epoxy/ pillar bedding, trigger tweaks, recrowning, removing material in the forend so the stock isn't binding against the barrel, shortening the forward-most mount base screw so it isn't contacting the barrel threads, etc.

Bolt action rifles are very simple mechanical devices. As long as you have a fundamentally good barrel, most any bolt action rifle can be made to shoot well. So, if I find a rifle that has good ergos, handling qualities and other features I like, I never rule out buying it based on a smattering of negative anecdotal evidence because I know from past experience that there's a very high probability that I'll be able to get it to shoot well, and for me, that's part of the fun.

Accuracy with any rifle is the product of a good barrel, optimal twist rate for the bullets you're shooting, optimal throat geometry for said bullet and magazine length constraints, stress-free and tight stock bedding, a decent trigger, and optimized loads for the system. I've heard all the Kimber complaints. I initially had issues with my 84M .260 not shooting to expectations. The solution was to sand a bit off the bottom of the magazine box so it wasn't binding between the bottom metal and underside of the action, a little bedding in the recoil lug area, and tweaking my handloads. Easy, inexpensive fixes for an otherwise sweet handling, beautiful rifle. Now, it shoots under 1 MOA. My 8400 Montana .325 WSM shot fantastic right out of the box with no tweaking whatsoever.

I'm a Cooper fanatic, and if the very best accuracy is paramount, they are hard to beat right out of the box. My Kimbers won't quite shoot with my Coopers, but then the former are 2LB lighter rifles with pencil profile barrels, so it isn't really a fair comparison. Coopers and Kimbers are two totally different rifles with different design philosophies and they both excel in different ways. The Nosler seems like a nice rifle from the samples I've handled, but I've never shot one, so I have no basis of comparison. It's more expensive than the Kimber, though.

Here's my Kimber 84M .260. It was cranky at first, but well worth the TLC:









I believe a rifle with that MSRP should out the box at least shoot close .5 MOA. Just under 1 MOA with handloads, bedding, trigger job, etc is not satisfactory. I respect the work you put in to the rifle and the beauty of it don't think I'm disrespecting you but I would have thought Kimber would gurantee some at least 1MOA.

Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5720001 04/28/15 04:24 PM
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The few Kimbers I have shot lived up to the sub MOA guarantee without any work. Love Coopers and wish I had more of them, the ones I have shot had no problem being sub 1/2 MOA.

RifleDude that was a good post and spot on IMO


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: spg] #5720111 04/28/15 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: spg

I believe a rifle with that MSRP should out the box at least shoot close .5 MOA. Just under 1 MOA with handloads, bedding, trigger job, etc is not satisfactory. I respect the work you put in to the rifle and the beauty of it don't think I'm disrespecting you but I would have thought Kimber would gurantee some at least 1MOA.


No disrespect taken, friend.

Kimber now does have a 1MOA guarantee on their rifles, incidentally, but I pay no attention to those "accuracy guarantees," because there are always strings attached.

I've shot tiny groups as small as .3 MOA with this rifle before, but I don't consider it a .3 MOA rifle because my standards for accuracy levels are more stringent than the average hunter I run into. I don't like talking about what precision level my rifles will shoot on the internet because when I do, dozens of people generally come out of the woodwork to tell me their Howa/Remmy/Ruger/Winny/TC, etc will shoot "one hole groups all day long...if I do my part." I run into folks like that all the time at the rifle range. I've bet several of them $$$ they couldn't demonstrate that to me, and I've never had anyone take me up on that bet. I'm not at all saying you fall into that category, and maybe you've been extraordinarily lucky to buy nothing but 1/2 MOA rifles. If so, I wanna know your secrets! grin

What I am saying, however, is that if a rifle won't shoot multiple 5 shot groups into 1/2MOA, repeatedly, more often than not, day in and day out, and continually agg at 1/2 MOA on demand, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle...by my standards. An occasional tiny group doesn't count, because luck could be involved. 3 shot groups may indicate a particular level of precision, but again, it isn't a true indicator statistically. I've never seen any rifle that shot 5 shot groups just as small as 3 shot groups out of the same rifle. 5-shot groups are statistically a better indicator of a rifle's precision, and multiple 5-shot groups even better. I know plenty of folks who shot a group with all rounds touching who saved the target so they could show all their friends. When they show me, I usually ask them to do it again. They usually can't, because the target in question isn't a true representative of what their rifle will do day in and day out.

By that standard, very few factory rifles at any price are true 1/2 MOA rifles. I know of no brand or model of factory rifle that is a consistent, true 1/2 MOA shooter, all the time. If it can't do it more often than not, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle. I've seen very few shooters capable of consistently driving their sporter weight, factory rifles to 1/2 MOA either, and I've seen a lot of shooters. Obviously very few of the shooters I see at all the rifle ranges I've been to actively post on the internet.

In this case, we're talking about a 5-1/2 lb pencil barreled rifle. 1/2MOA is a pretty tough standard for such a rifle, no matter the price tag. In this case, a Kimber 84M costs about $300 more than a Remington 700 CDL, and from my experience, I'd say the average specimen from both series shoots to about the same level of precision. The difference between the Rem 700 and the Kimber is the latter has nicer fit and finish and nicer wood on average. Plus, the latter has a livelier feel and a more refined stock design, IMO. That's where the extra $300 goes toward. When it comes to factory rifles, retail price is almost never proportional or in any way representative of accuracy potential. Some of the most accurate factory rifles I've seen were inexpensive Savages.

I shoot a lot, and own a lot of rifles. If you're getting a consistent 1/2 MOA with your "non-custom," mass-produced rifles, then you know tricks I don't and/or you're a much better shooter than me.


Ted
Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5720316 04/28/15 07:46 PM
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Wow, refreshing talk there.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5720354 04/28/15 08:04 PM
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I think a lot of peoples groups disappear with their lead sled.

Went and shot the other day trying to work up a load... new range relatively new gun it was frazeling. Not happy with how the gun fits me so far as cheek weld etc. yet know dang sure even if the gun was capable of 1/2 moa I was not.


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Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: RifleDude] #5720384 04/28/15 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: RifleDude

I run into folks like that all the time at the rifle range. I've bet several of them $$$ they couldn't demonstrate that to me, and I've never had anyone take me up on that bet.


that's funny, i've done the same thing

a few of my shooter friends made fun of my Ruger and Winchester ( guns have been tweaked )
but when I said

"take your best rifle and if you can shoot a tighter group you get my rifle or vice versa" or a $5000 bet

none of them have ever taken me up on it

Re: Kimber rifle ? [Re: colt45-90] #5720387 04/28/15 08:25 PM
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I was thinking about getting a kimber but I have almost talked myself into a Winchester featherweight instead. Still not sure. They seem pretty similar but I haven't got a close look at a kimber yet.

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