The three most commonly over-hyped claims in shooting/hunting:

1)I won't own a rifle that is not a 1/2 MOA shooter;
2)Every animal I shoot is always DRT; and
3)I never miss.

I was thinking about getting a kimber but I have almost talked myself into a Winchester featherweight instead. Still not sure. They seem pretty similar but I haven't got a close look at a kimber yet.

4. I shot that deer at 800 yards.

I then ask them how many mils or moa of dope they dialed in their scope for the shot. "Huh?"

Kimber now does have a 1MOA guarantee on their rifles, incidentally, but I pay no attention to those "accuracy guarantees," because there are always strings attached.

I've shot tiny groups as small as .3 MOA with this rifle before, but I don't consider it a .3 MOA rifle because my standards for accuracy levels are more stringent than the average hunter I run into. I don't like talking about what precision level my rifles will shoot on the internet because when I do, dozens of people generally come out of the woodwork to tell me their Howa/Remmy/Ruger/Winny/TC, etc will shoot "one hole groups all day long...if I do my part." I run into folks like that all the time at the rifle range. I've bet several of them $$$ they couldn't demonstrate that to me, and I've never had anyone take me up on that bet. I'm not at all saying you fall into that category, and maybe you've been extraordinarily lucky to buy nothing but 1/2 MOA rifles. If so, I wanna know your secrets!

What I am saying, however, is that if a rifle won't shoot multiple 5 shot groups into 1/2MOA, repeatedly, more often than not, day in and day out, and continually agg at 1/2 MOA on demand, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle...by my standards. An occasional tiny group doesn't count, because luck could be involved. 3 shot groups may indicate a particular level of precision, but again, it isn't a true indicator statistically. I've never seen any rifle that shot 5 shot groups just as small as 3 shot groups out of the same rifle. 5-shot groups are statistically a better indicator of a rifle's precision, and multiple 5-shot groups even better. I know plenty of folks who shot a group with all rounds touching who saved the target so they could show all their friends. When they show me, I usually ask them to do it again. They usually can't, because the target in question isn't a true representative of what their rifle will do day in and day out.

By that standard, very few factory rifles at any price are true 1/2 MOA rifles. I know of no brand or model of factory rifle that is a consistent, true 1/2 MOA shooter, all the time. If it can't do it more often than not, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle. I've seen very few shooters capable of consistently driving their sporter weight, factory rifles to 1/2 MOA either, and I've seen a lot of shooters. Obviously very few of the shooters I see at all the rifle ranges I've been to actively post on the internet.

In this case, we're talking about a 5-1/2 lb pencil barreled rifle. 1/2MOA is a pretty tough standard for such a rifle, no matter the price tag. In this case, a Kimber 84M costs about $300 more than a Remington 700 CDL, and from my experience, I'd say the average specimen from both series shoots to about the same level of precision. The difference between the Rem 700 and the Kimber is the latter has nicer fit and finish and nicer wood on average. Plus, the latter has a livelier feel and a more refined stock design, IMO. That's where the extra $300 goes toward. When it comes to factory rifles, retail price is almost never proportional or in any way representative of accuracy potential. Some of the most accurate factory rifles I've seen were inexpensive Savages.

I shoot a lot, and own a lot of rifles. If you're getting a consistent 1/2 MOA with your "non-custom," mass-produced rifles, then you know tricks I don't and/or you're a much better shooter than me.

I've had two .243, two .308's, one .223 and one .25-06 all kimber montanas. The .243 and .25-06 had to take a trip back to kimber for work. Both had stocks and barrels replaced and came back shooting great. I have a .243 left that shoots great even with a 1# suppressor on that thin barrel, but it is cut down to 18". It sucks they take a month to correct their problems in a new rifle, if they have to be worked on. On the Montanas, when they say bedded, its not actually bedding to the one action, they use a slave action on every stock, so its not a precise bedding job, but i guess better then none. I don't know how they bed the wood stocked stuff though. I always said if i wanted another light rifle i will buy a tikka and get it bedded in a lightweight mcmillian stock, that would make one bad nice shooting rifle, for close to the same price.