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Federal brass?
#5711233
04/22/15 01:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Seems like I have herd that federal brass was hard/prone to cracking?
I have some brass I saved from federal factory ammo I have been shooting in my 243 win. This weekend I fired the brass for the third time, once factory loaded and two sets of handloads.
I had 4 cases have a crack/split in the neck after firing. Is that normal/characteristic of federal brass? Ive gotten a lot better use out of federal 270 and 280 brass.
Guess ill be buying some 243 brass sooner than I thought.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711254
04/22/15 01:41 PM
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deewayne2003
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Like you said.....I've had really good luck with using .270win federal brass, and never had splitting issues except for the nickel plated ones I had years back. They seemed to crack fairly quick.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711285
04/22/15 02:02 PM
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ChadTRG42
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2 things are happening here.
First- The main one is your necks are getting work hardened from shooting and reloading 3 times, and have become brittle. You need to anneal the case necks after about the second firing before sizing. This will prevent the neck cracks. When I shot my 260 Rem, I had to anneal the case necks to keep them from work hardening and keep good consistency in the necks. The over bore rounds (small opening with lots of powder), like a 243 or 22-250, will need annealing sooner than a larger opening case.
2nd- Federal brass is decent brass, but is fairly soft. The primer pockets generally open up very easy after a few loadings. So, there is more care needed for this brass.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711335
04/22/15 02:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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I've had horrible luck with Federal brass. Split necks on factory loads or once reloaded.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711361
04/22/15 02:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Interesting. I have never annealed any brass ever. I have some Winchester, Remington, and federal 270 win and 280 rem brass ranging from 5-6 firings on them and no problems what so ever. All moderate loads. I have been running some of the 243 stuff a little harder than I normally do but still seems like premature failure to me. Ill have to pick up some new stuff and see what gives. Maybe ill get lucky and some of my family who shoots one and doesn't reload will hook me up that would be RP or winchester
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711419
04/22/15 03:13 PM
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tth_40
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I've got 7mm08 Remington, .270 Winchester, .30-06 and 8mmJS Mauser brass in Remington and Winchester that have gone from 4 to 8 loadings with no issues. The most I've pushed Federal brass typically is 3, and by then a few pieces have already split. +1 on Federal primer pockets as well.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711593
04/22/15 05:04 PM
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ChadTRG42
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Interesting. I have never annealed any brass ever. I have some Winchester, Remington, and federal 270 win and 280 rem brass ranging from 5-6 firings on them and no problems what so ever. All moderate loads. I have been running some of the 243 stuff a little harder than I normally do but still seems like premature failure to me. Ill have to pick up some new stuff and see what gives. Maybe ill get lucky and some of my family who shoots one and doesn't reload will hook me up that would be RP or winchester The 270 and 280 calibers you mentioned above are not as overbore as a 243 is, plus they have much longer necks. I have my 270 Win brass that I have never annealed also. It has MANY firings on it. But the necks are very long, and the angle of the flame from the powder burning is totally different than a 243. The 243 has a relatively short neck, and a small opening. There's a lot of flame coming through this small opening. The smaller the area with a good amount of slow buring powder will require you to anneal much sooner than other calibers.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5711857
04/22/15 07:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
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603Country
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For years I used and reused Norma brass in my 220. Don't know how many reloads I did, but it was a lot. Had a few neck splits, but not many. Recently used some Nosler brass, which I believe to be Federal brass that is held to higher standards of consistency, and I had quite a few neck splits in 260 and in 223 brass after 5 or 6 reloads. Nothing mentioned above was ever annealed.
For what it's worth, the powder in the 220 and 260 was mostly IMR 4064. In the 223 it was H335 and AA2230.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: 603Country]
#5712249
04/23/15 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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RDub270
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Recently used some Nosler brass, which I believe to be Federal brass that is held to higher standards of consistency First I've heard of this. How did you come this belief?
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5712510
04/23/15 02:50 AM
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bigjoe8565
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I've never had any issues with Federal in my .308. I bought factory ammo, shot it and have 2-3 reloads on the brass. Not sure how long it will last, but so far so good.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: bigjoe8565]
#5712654
04/23/15 10:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
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dawaba
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Often, there is so much variation in DIFFERENT LOTS OF THE SAME BRAND of brass that you would swear you've bought a different brand altogether. So, about the time you settle on a favorite brand, say R-P, you'll run into a batch of Remington that will be too soft, or too brittle, or too short-lived.
As a rule, European brass (RWS, Norma, Lapua) tends to be more consistent from lot to lot, and the flash holes are drilled, rather than punched.
In this day of chronic brass shortages, a casual reloader would be crazy to shun a particular batch of new brass just because he's had issues in the past. And for the general hunting and target shooting that 98% of us do, most any brand will be more or less acceptable, just so long as you try to avoid mixing different brands and lots in the same reloading session.
Now, if you are a competitive shooter or LR gong-ringer, you will be more discerning in your approach to brass procurement, as well as in every stage of your reloading process.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5712727
04/23/15 12:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Well im trying to get to that proficiency at long range. Im not partial to any one in particular and do my best to stay consistent in preparation and loading.
Ill run the federals till they don't go no more and ill probably switch to RP because I can get some once fired freebee. If for some reason that doesn't pan out ill just have to see what I can find.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: 603Country]
#5712862
04/23/15 01:50 PM
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ChadTRG42
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Recently used some Nosler brass, which I believe to be Federal brass that is held to higher standards of consistency Nosler brass is Norma brass rebranded. If you have them side by side, and weigh them, they are almost identical. It is fairly common for brass mfg's to make brass for other companies with their company head stamp.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5712867
04/23/15 01:52 PM
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ChadTRG42
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Federal brass is decent. It's just really soft. You will have to trip the brass more than other brands. The primer pockets will also open up much sooner, and they can not last as long with a stiff load. But FC brass will work just fine. I was given about 400 pieces of FC brass and have loaded it up several times. It works fine and shoots good. It just needs a little more TLC.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5712887
04/23/15 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
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603Country
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I got my info as to who made Nosler brass from a Varmint magazine article that was testing brass. Supposedly the Nosler brass was hand selected from big lots of Federal brass, and picked for consistency of weight, wall thickness, and such as that. Whether or not the magazine was correct, I don't know.
Just from my use of Norma and Nosler brass, and failure rates of each, I tend to not believe that Norma makes Nosler brass. Of course, my 'research' consists of shooting and reshooting, and I got more neck splits from the Nosler. Quite a few more neck splits. I don't think the two makes of brass are the same. I could be wrong. I have no concrete knowledge of who makes Nosler brass, other than what that magazine article said.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5713008
04/23/15 03:27 PM
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ChadTRG42
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I was told by an inside source that Norma made the Nosler brass. Also, the characteristics of Norma and Nosler are very similar in all calibers I have reloaded. The Federal brass and Nosler brass have totally different reloading characteristics. Nosler lasts much longer than Federal. I'd be shocked if they were the same.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5713134
04/23/15 04:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
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spg
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I use Nosler brass for .300 win mag and 7 mag, never had a failure and the loads are stiff. Run about 5 loads through the brass and never anneal. Spend enough time re sizing, trimming, and cleaning. I use alot of hornady and winchester for other rifles also.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5713144
04/23/15 04:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Im pretty sure 603Country is the only person I have ever heard speak negatively of nosler brass.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5713297
04/23/15 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
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603Country
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Whoa there, redchevy, I like Nosler brass. It just seems to develop split necks a bit faster than Norma or Lapua. For the price of Nosler brass, I can get Lapua or Norma and get longer brass life, which seems to me to be a better deal.
I found the Varmint mag that I mentioned earlier. It did say that Nosler was made by Federal. That was a 2013 issue, and he was testing 223 brass. It's quite possible that Nosler brass in various calibers could be made by more than one supplier, or even that Nosler has changed suppliers since then.
As for who really makes Nosler brass, who cares. I like it. I just like the other two makers a little bit more.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5713303
04/23/15 06:18 PM
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redchevy
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I didn't mean my comment in a negative way, just saying ive never heard anything but praises regarding nosler brass.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5713409
04/23/15 07:30 PM
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603Country
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Redchevy, no offense taken. If I hadn't shot 223 and 260 Nosler brass till it wore out a little too quickly to please me, I'd still be using it and buying more. It is excellent brass, but for the price I think I can get longer lasting brass. I may be wrong, but at least I'm happy in my ignorance.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5714273
04/24/15 09:31 AM
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spg
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603, you might be crimping the hell out of'em or something might be wrong with your die.
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5714577
04/24/15 02:46 PM
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I don't crimp, and the dies I used at various times were: Lee Collet, Redding type s bushing, redding NK, redding FL. None of them was defective.
Any brass is going to work fine, though I'm of the opinion that Remington and Winchester will need to be prepped prior to use. The reason that I finally decided to upgrade to Norma, Lapua, and Nosler was that I got tired of doing all the prep work, and those 3 need no prep. I had a long history of use with Norma, but none with Lapua and Nosler. I bought some Nosler in 223 and 260 for new rifles (new to me) and did mucho load work up with several powders. I got neck splits sooner than I thought was 'normal', and sooner than I had experienced with Norma brass. Subsequent hard use with Lapua didn't result in many neck splits. So you can see that this was in no way any sort of scientific test, but was just use and observation. So...I think that Nosler tends to have neck splits sooner than the other two, and since it's a bit pricey, I decided to stick to Lapua and Norma. That's how I got to where I am on brass buying. And I might even be wrong. That's certainly possible.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5714683
04/24/15 03:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
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jeh7mmmag
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Did using the Lee collet seem to help with the brass life, and cut down on neck splits?
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: Federal brass?
[Re: redchevy]
#5714886
04/24/15 05:59 PM
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603Country
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I've moved to resizing with the Lee Collet Die for the 223 and the 260, and using a body die to bump the shoulder back as needed. That seems to give me best accuracy, and I really like that I don't have to use a lube with the collet die. As for whether or not I'll get longer brass life or fewer neck splits, at this point I don't know for sure. But, since the brass isn't worked very much, I am expecting longer brass life. We'll see.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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