Alright, this is a hypothetical.... just want to see what you all think would happen.. heh.. so.. not making the offer, sorry.. but just trying to prove a point I made to some folks.

issue - I have 330 acres. I love the fact I can invite folks out whenever I want and let them hunt. When we bought it, it had a "primitive" barn-style cabin on one tract. I decided to make something nicer and so designed a cabin. As I got to inviting friends, I redesigned the cabin to be larger to accommodate the entire group. It has been 4 years, cabin is done, and I love the group of folks.....BUT.. one couple seem to help less than the rest, complain more than all of the rest combined, and do not seem to follow the rules....i.e. they shot a 4-point last year and when I asked why, the answer was, "well...I had not seen anything all year and he walked out at the wrong time".

Now, I see, regularly, more animals than you can shake a stick at.. but that is not the point I wanted to make. We do not shoot 4-points, period.

Add to that, I manage the Axis bucks so we can all get one. We have plenty, but the rules were, no guests shoot one. They let a 14yr old kid shoot one. Again, I like the idea of the kiddos getting to hunt, but the rules were pretty clear.

Then, they brought out a pop-up. Not a huge deal, but I made a rule, no pop-ups unless shooting on an existing feeder with a bow, which they were not doing. They wanted to hunt a spot they thought was covered in Axis and, again, complained about deer stands not being fixed yet won't FIX them...instead bring out a pop-up. (that was why I banned pop-ups...if you can't help fix a problem, you can't complain about it)

SO...


They pay nothing to hunt the place. ALL I require is 4 protein tubs a year (2 2 times a year) and keep the 7 corn feeders filled and maintain the place). For this, they can bring the family and a guest now and then...

I told them, "Look, I could make a post on the Internet offering this same deal and would have a hundred hell yeas in an hour....you guys have a good deal.

The cabin is furnished with a bathroom and a/c etc.. and you can hunt all sorts of exotics and deer hogs etc.

I realize they helped build the cabin, albeit they did less than the other folks, but am I wrong to be irritated and thinking they are taking advantage of the great deal?

I mean, I have not leased a lot....but imo... a LEASE would cost a lot of money and still they would have to do the same duties.

Russ

SMH

People never cease to amaze me...

Your Ranch
Your Hospitality
Your Rules..

Pretty Clean Cut

Agreed.

I did not implement any real "rules" till this year when I got a ton of complaints about "why no-one fixes the deer stands?" etc..

I was like, "uh.. I TOLD you guys to build them a certain way.. i.e. do not add metal roofing right onto a frame. Add solar board under it and then screw into that and seal the entire thing. So, they went cheap and the wind keeps blowing off the roofs on three of the stands.

Now, I plan to rebuild them myself right, but I was busy getting the cabin done etc and MY stand that I built is solid and not affected.

They brought out pop-ups and placed it in the path that feeds one of the stands and I was like, "no pop-ups. Can't complain about not fixing the stands and then bring a pop-up.

The 4-point thing is a no-brainer imo.. that one took me by surprise.

I did not get angry about the Axis buck except the same couple has been whining they had not gotten a dang Axis and they finally SEE one and let the kid shoot it.

I can't say too too much because they wear their feelings on their sleeves and the other two folks that come are life-long friends of theirs... so.. I would probably lose all of them from the ranch, which I do enjoy ALL of them.. just annoying.

I figured to give it this one more year and if it continues, I will just have to change the locks and say, "thanks for helping but I need people that follow the rules AND maintain the place. If I have to do it all, I don't need to share the place.

Russ

Pure lack of respect..... give um the boot

I'll take their deal as soon as you say the word Russ. Without the guest privlidges.

It is really sad how selfish and disrespectful people have become.

I would tell them not to come back.

Pitch, I'll let you know if it comes to that. Hoping to save some friendships.

I invite lots of folks out... we have so much to hunt, and none of the guests got to shoot any major animals.. i.e. I saved the Axis bucks for the "inner crew". I do not accept money for stuff because I did not want to be beholding to anyone, but there is never a shortage of animals for the "inner crew" to harvest even with me taking folks out. Last year we trapped 43 hogs and there are plenty more.

I have seen more axis this year than ever before AND we are seeing a lot of Sika and Aoudad recently too.

Everyone is walking away with tons of meat if they want it OR if they are not loud.. heh

So.. just seemed like a good deal to me.. and I needed to rant a bit.. heh... thanks

I told one of them who would probably stay and works his butt off, we will give it one more year. Either things change or I drop the offending folks.

Russ

I have a simple rule Mr. Russell, My Benevolence will only extend to a certain distance.. Once you have stuck your hand out and its slapped away..

Then at that point if you allow it to continue, you my friend are as guilty as them and are contributing to the problem.

Seems to be a very generous and polite gesture that you reap great rewards from, there is nothing greater than random acts of kindness..


But as with a Child and I see Parents Coddle them, it defeats the agenda.

Sounds like your mind is made up and I would not lose an ounce of sleep. You have done your Due Diligence Sir

Thanks Rab

Did I mention the wife (the drama queen) works in the same bldg for the same agency as me? lol

Anyways, they are super nice but, like you said.. enough is enough. I will see how this next few months pans out and if no changes, then we will just do some spring cleaning.

Till then.. THF party at my place! who is up for a huge hog hunt?! lol

R

If they are truly your friends then you can have a talk with them to make them understand your rules. If they are your friends then they will understand them and abide by them. If they continue this path then tell them things will change...and they will not like the changes you make.

Keep your same rules and make a written contract up stating your rules and be clear about everything with the cost(feed or what ever), blinds, guests, work, animals and what happens if rules are broke and have them sign it, you keep a copy and give them one.

That way it will be clear to you and them what is expected and they know what will happen, should eliminate hard feelings for kicking them off after they break the rules they signed and agreed to.

We don't have enough game for everyone to come out and hunt. Last year I shot one buck on 400 acres. The family hunts some, But not as much as I do. My Son and I got into a quarrel last season. He comes out, doesn't buy corn for his feeder, expects Dad to buy all the food, sleeps in a beautiful cabin that I built, pays no taxes on the place, pays no electric bill. Then shot a buck at a friends place that I had passed on, hoping someone who would appreciate the deer would have an opportunity at. He hung the deer up for two days in 80 degree weather, while Kenny Freds processing was waiting on the buck. I was in Dallas.

He shot the buck early Saturday morning. On sunday he still hadn't taken the deer to town. I finally reached him in the evening and a screaming match ensued over the phone. He ended up cutting the horns off and giving the meat away ...Bottom line, he had no skin in the game and just looked at it like he was 'entitled', he even said as much. This year I think he should be banned from harvesting anything...This was a deer I was saving for a hunter that would appreciate it, and possibly do a shoulder mount. Needless to say, things will be different this year.

I feel your pain. They need to go. They did it to themselves.

Wow.. Mike.. and I thought "I" had it bad. Sorry to hear that.

Well, I am typing up the rules now. I will post them on here when I am done for input.

Once it is done, I will have each sign it and post a copy in the cabin.

Then, they have only themselves to blame.

R

Some people just don't get it.

I have a very close buddy that's a good friend. He's not a jerk or anything, always very friendly - love spending time with him.

A couple of years ago he was kinda down in the dumps so I let him hunt a property I had for sale basically all season with only 1 rule: No guests. Didn't want liability for the actions of people I didn't know.

Check the game cameras and there are a couple sets of legs in the background that aren't him.

I seriously don't think it ever registered not to do it. I calmly but firmly let him know it wasn't okay.

You kinda gotta undue the hardcoding of people on certain things.

Your to polite... put some anger in those rules and make them sign it in blood

Very very nice of you to share your place in such a way. Bought my 365 acre place 10 years ago. Had a decision to make: keep it basically family or re-start the "deer lease" with friends and their families from a prior lease.

In the end, I kept it in the family. Primarily because it just wasn't big enough and east TX deer densities are so low. Too many friends, not enough land. Plus I knew issues like yours would be constantly cropping up, rules would have to be established, other friends would get butthurt, would have to be the "bad guy", etc., etc., etc.

It has worked out for the best as the deer quality has skyrocketed and my family has grown, but it was not an easy choice.

They don't appreciate your generosity. Best to correct now, if you don't then one day you will have had all you can stand. Then you will probably say more than you should.

I hunt some family land for free, and if I'd have broke those rules I'd fully expect to have been asked to leave, family or not. Hell, if I'd have broke *one* of them I'd have my blind and feeder put out at the corner of the property for me to go pick up. Another guy who was on the property with us is no longer allowed, and no longer a friend, because he took advantage of the leniency the landowner showed. It's about respect, some folks have it, some don't. There's some people out there for whom everyone else is a doormat, plain and simple. Their sense of entitlement often makes them believe the rules don't apply to them for one reason or another. Those people are a cancer upon a place. You can try and treat it, but often times you have to cut it out to get rid of it.

If you want to give it one more year, send an email to every member of the lease that spells out, in no uncertain terms, your expectations. Then let them make their own bed. It'll be up to them to show you respect on your property. If you don't demand it, they're not going to give it to you.

I agree with what others have said. Your place, your rules. If they don't follow the rules, they can find another place to go

Wow... your generosity is outstanding and commendable! I would hate to see how these people would treat a place where they were not considered "friends". They should be bending over backwards to help out and be more than happy to follow ANY rules YOU have for YOUR place. They are taking advantage of the situation and not showing much respect. "Hopefully this isn't happening on your place since your speaking hypothetically".

Russ - I'm in a similar situation, so I can truly understand where you are coming from. And you sound like me - a fair guy that doesn't ask for a lot, but would sure appreciate all the help *and the rules to be followed. I have 309 acres that I own, and everyone loves being able to go out, hunt, relax, explore the woods, etc...but, I'm at a crossroads moving forward, based on a few recent events. This year I'm making a Ranch Rules sheet for everyone to read and sign!

It takes a ton of work to maintain a place that size. Some people get it, some don't. An example: One of my best friends asked to go out to the ranch with his wife for his birthday to hunt and hang out for the weekend. Sure thing. Just asked him to give me the full report of the place, and to study the pics I sent him of what is/isn't on the hit list. I gave him the green light on a doe or one of the 4 shooter bucks. He shot a doe, a cull buck (that I was ok with - it wasn't healthy) and an 8pt that was NOT on the hit list. I gave him the green light on 1 deer only. He took 3. I would have just suspended his right to shoot a buck next year based on him shooting the 8pt (too young).. The story tumbles downhill from there - but it ends with him hiding the fact that he brought out 5 people that I didn't know, they damaged our UTV, and he erased game trail pics from my cameras to remove evidence of the guests - except he never found the hidden cameras on the property that got their pics. Long story longer...he sent his ranch keys back to me and we haven't spoken since. This was a guy that was in my wedding and that I've know for 20 years, and I've hunting with him for about that length of time. This kind of thing never happened before...never been a shady person. But people always reveal their true character.

As I grow older, I am committed to my family life, and having the right kind of inner circle around me, and eliminating any BS that keeps me from my happiness or obtaining my goals - in my home life, and on the ranch. My friend basically took himself out of that inner circle. He made those choices. He forced my hand...and that's what I think was a difficult thing to get my head around at first. It's one thing to make a mistake, it's clearly another to defy your requests over and over again. All that to say, don't feel bad to let someone go that needs to be let go. They made those choices. They defied your requests. They have taken advantage of YOUR kindness. My advise - for what is worth - is to do what STX mentions - have a sit down with them...and give them one more chance, if you feel like you need to. To me, you would be justified with removing them from the inner circle. It's not easy for a nice guy to cut the cord sometimes...but in the end, you WILL feel better without the drama and BS in your life. It stings to lose a friend. But sometimes a person just wears the camouflage of friendship...and you need to cull the herd!

Good luck, sir!
~George

I understand you being stuck in the middle of this, they are your friends but friends don't put you in a situation that makes you choose. They should be grateful and willing to do the little you ask for such a wonderful place. Sit down and have a talk with them, you will have either better friends or no more complaining and disrespect.

Man, I feel your pain. Nobody will respect your land or the money and effort involved to maintain it the way you do.
I've pretty much decided that you either have to be an ahole early on or a worse ahole later on if you open the gates up for friends to use.

ok, long post. I wrote down some rules. There are like 14 of them so far... simply because I did not want anything to be ambiguous.

Might be too many rules, but I wanted it all spelled out clearly, so no misunderstanding.
Tell me what you think might need to be changed, might be too picky, etc.

MY responsibility is paying for the place.. heh.. and I pretty much pay for all major upgrades and maintenance.. i.e. costs be about 1800 a month.

I expect their cost would run each of them about.. $50 a month max? plus labor.
-----------------------------------------------

Rules for ‘Rancho Esperanza’

Below, are the rules as outlined for the ranch. These apply to all persons allowed to hunt and a signed copy will be kept on file for each person. Violation of the rules can lead to restrictions and/or exclusion from the ranch. Visiting the ranch, whether hunting or not, signifies agreement to ALL of the terms listed below.
This can be updated at any time without notice or a signature, and will be posted at the ranch main cabin.

1 – We are a Managed ranch. This means we only shoot mature animals or culls. A cull is defined as an inferior deer or one, such as a doe, that is in abundance above what the land will support. Shooting a deer that is managed or out of season is not acceptable, i.e. if the deer is not old enough to be harvested, such as a 3yr old deer.
2 – No pop-up blinds allowed unless they are within bow range of an existing feeder. Period. No exceptions will be allowed until all current deer stands are up to par with repairs. At such time, I will re-write these rules to allow pop-up stands.
3 – No more than 2 guests at a time without prior approval. Any number of guests can be invited so long as they are not hunting Axis or Deer of any sort, i.e. if you want friends to help hunt hogs or Aoudad, you can invite whomever, but please let me know how many and allow for others to schedule around you if needed. No guests shall be left unsupervised at the ranch, period. My liability insurance is only so much and I will not cover anyone that is not approved. DIRECT family members, i.e. children and spouses, are not considered a “guest”.
4 – All electronic devices associated with the ranch, including but not limited to cameras and game cams are to be left alone. These are for monitoring the ranch, NOT the people at the ranch, and are hard to set up and should not be modified, temporarily or permanently.
5 – Protein in the forum of no less than 4 125lb tubs shall be provided per year. How they get provided does not matter, but receipts must be emailed/given to Russ each year before November.
6 – Corn shall be kept stocked and in working feeders at all times. While I understand that feeders break, we should make every effort to ensure that ALL feeders have corn in them and are functioning as much as possible. The cost of hunting is upkeep and supplies and corn and water and protein are one of the most important supplies.
7 – Maintain all equipment. This includes, but is not limited to the Cabin(s) and the deer stands and feeders. While I am more than willing to help, I have more than enough to worry about in keeping the main aspects of the cabin working and functional for everyone. The deer stands and feeders are the top priority of the hunters while the cabin itself is my top priority.
8 – CLEAR OUT all perishable food from the fridge EVERY visit. Do not assume that someone else will eat the food you brought.
9 – Turn off the ONE breaker to the water pump in the breaker box (lower right side) and shut ALL valves on the water manifold each visit.
10 – Lock ALL hog traps in the OPEN position so as not to accidently trap hogs when not at the ranch to harvest them.
11 – Every guest must bring no less than 2 50lb bags of deer corn. The exception is, kids under the age of 16 that are accompanied by an adult, i.e. if you invite a kid that is a friend of yours/kid then they bring 2 bags. If you invite a friend that brings a kid that is under 16, then the adult is the only one that has to bring 2 bags. The goal is to offset the resource costs while allowing you to bring guests, but not have the guests be a burden to the others and maintaining that we allow for a family environment.
12 – Maintain ALL log sheets and Wildlife Management practices. Each year, I must turn in hog kill sheets, deer census and harvest counts and receipts for all WLM practices. It is expected that all log sheets will be updated and all practices are to be maintained and adhered to in order to keep the WLM tax exemption. We will discuss those needs and I will provide an outline and all persons are expected to keep up with these needs. Log files will be printed and available at the ranch. Not knowing what to do or where files are etc is not considered a viable excuse for not maintaining the WLM requirements.
13 – Always lock the gates to the ranch upon leaving and do not give out the combination to anyone, including guests. They are to be accompanied by you at all times.
14 – No ‘junk’ at the ranch. From now on, we will supply the ranch with new or close to new items. We are too far away from replacements to have a lot of ‘junk’ at the ranch. If you see a need, please communicate it before ‘dumping’ old unwanted things at the ranch. We spent a lot of time cleaning the place up and we do not need more ‘junk’ out there.

I agree with this, give them one shot, but be plain and direct. Even "nice folks" need to be clued in sometimes. If it is just a total lack of respect and self serving, you will know if changes do not occur. After that it is on you.

My "gut" feeling is they don't take you very seriously and it is disrespect to you, as well as your other guest, that is what I get from your OP anyhoo.