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Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: Son of a Blitch] #5710132 04/21/15 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: George - w/ Map My Ranch
Russ - I'm in a similar situation, so I can truly understand where you are coming from. And you sound like me - a fair guy that doesn't ask for a lot, but would sure appreciate all the help *and the rules to be followed. I have 309 acres that I own, and everyone loves being able to go out, hunt, relax, explore the woods, etc...but, I'm at a crossroads moving forward, based on a few recent events. This year I'm making a Ranch Rules sheet for everyone to read and sign!

It takes a ton of work to maintain a place that size. Some people get it, some don't. An example: One of my best friends asked to go out to the ranch with his wife for his birthday to hunt and hang out for the weekend. Sure thing. Just asked him to give me the full report of the place, and to study the pics I sent him of what is/isn't on the hit list. I gave him the green light on a doe or one of the 4 shooter bucks. He shot a doe, a cull buck (that I was ok with - it wasn't healthy) and an 8pt that was NOT on the hit list. I gave him the green light on 1 deer only. He took 3. I would have just suspended his right to shoot a buck next year based on him shooting the 8pt (too young).. The story tumbles downhill from there - but it ends with him hiding the fact that he brought out 5 people that I didn't know, they damaged our UTV, and he erased game trail pics from my cameras to remove evidence of the guests - except he never found the hidden cameras on the property that got their pics. Long story longer...he sent his ranch keys back to me and we haven't spoken since. This was a guy that was in my wedding and that I've know for 20 years, and I've hunting with him for about that length of time. This kind of thing never happened before...never been a shady person. But people always reveal their true character.

As I grow older, I am committed to my family life, and having the right kind of inner circle around me, and eliminating any BS that keeps me from my happiness or obtaining my goals - in my home life, and on the ranch. My friend basically took himself out of that inner circle. He made those choices. He forced my hand...and that's what I think was a difficult thing to get my head around at first. It's one thing to make a mistake, it's clearly another to defy your requests over and over again. All that to say, don't feel bad to let someone go that needs to be let go. They made those choices. They defied your requests. They have taken advantage of YOUR kindness. My advise - for what is worth - is to do what STX mentions - have a sit down with them...and give them one more chance, if you feel like you need to. To me, you would be justified with removing them from the inner circle. It's not easy for a nice guy to cut the cord sometimes...but in the end, you WILL feel better without the drama and BS in your life. It stings to lose a friend. But sometimes a person just wears the camouflage of friendship...and you need to cull the herd!

Good luck, sir!
~George


Wow, George.. that bites. I would be pretty upset if someone I had in my wedding was like that. You know, it sucks, but like you said.. sometimes the true colors come out and ya have to ask how good of friends you really were.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710139 04/21/15 05:13 PM
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Sadly, chances are many of them will now have their feelings hurt because you feel the need to set out the rules in writing for them to sign.

You can't win.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710142 04/21/15 05:15 PM
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The more you give, the more they take. I would take them out behind the barn, explain the situation, explain the consequences and tell them this was their first and last warning and if there is any "if, ands, buts, or ors" tell them to pack their stuff and hit the road forever. Life is too short to allow people to treat you like that. Friendship goes both ways.


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Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710148 04/21/15 05:20 PM
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am·big·u·ous


/amˈbiɡyo͞oəs/


adjective

adjective: ambiguous




(of language) open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.
"the question is rather ambiguous"

Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710153 04/21/15 05:23 PM
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People truly amaze me. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. They make the mistakes and then want to blame someone else. They should feel privileged to have the opportunity and to know someone so generous.

If they were truly friends, a good stern sit down should clear things up quickly. Good luck to you up


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Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710155 04/21/15 05:26 PM
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I am very fortunate on my ranch. It is reserved for my wife and I, and immediate family (including daughters, son-in-laws and grandchildren), and a few very special friends. Other than a few of the grandchildren (who hunt very infrequently), when I have a work weekend, they most all manage to be there and pitch in, regardless of the type of work that needs to be done. I have only a few rules on harvesting game and have never had a problem with everyone abiding by those rules. I also have a few rules about the ranch (don't throw trash down, pick up any trash you see and police your brass) and the ranch lodge that the wife and I just spent $185K remodeling, but these are very simple and common sense (keep it neat, clean up after yourself, make sure when you leave that it is cleaner than when you got there, and above all, respect the game, our ranch and the lodge).

Reading some of the troubles folks above are having, it makes me realize just how fortunate I am, and very thankful I do not have to deal with some of those issues!

EDIT: By the way, my rules are unwritten, but everybody knows them. The only written rules are the start-up and shut-down procedures for the Lodge!

Last edited by rarjar; 04/21/15 05:31 PM.
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710156 04/21/15 05:26 PM
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Seems the written rules are way more trouble than they are worth.

The good ones don't need them, and why waste time arguing with the abusers over them? As a LO I would never have written rules.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710158 04/21/15 05:27 PM
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I do think I see what kinda operation this is though or at least the focus of it. Have you thought about hiring a hand? Your gona overload yourself trying to take care of to much eventually... if I was on a place like that I would expect to have to put more of my time/work into it than what your asking of them.. really cool of you though just don't be afraid to spread the load more if you will

Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: rarjar] #5710161 04/21/15 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: rarjar
I am very fortunate on my ranch. It is reserved for my wife and I, and immediate family (including daughters, son-in-laws and grandchildren), and a few very special friends. Other than a few of the grandchildren (who hunt very infrequently), when I have a work weekend, they most all manage to be there and pitch in, regardless of the type of work that needs to be done. I have only a few rules on harvesting game and have never had a problem with everyone abiding by those rules. I also have a few rules about the ranch (don't throw trash down, pick up any trash you see and police your brass) and the ranch lodge that the wife and I just spent $185K remodeling, but these are very simple and common sense (keep it neat, clean up after yourself, make sure when you leave that it is cleaner than when you got there, and above all, respect the game, our ranch and the lodge).

Reading some of the troubles folks above are having, it makes me realize just how fortunate I am, and very thankful I do not have to deal with some of those issues!


Very similar to my deal.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710162 04/21/15 05:29 PM
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Man they are lucky your such a nice guy, if it was my grandfathers place and they where being like that. Ohhhh man i woulda actually feel sorry for them! but anyways its your place and your rules if you let people break them with no consequences then it becomes a regular thing for them. Cut that BS out now! and not to mention would you really want friends like that in the first place? Trust me from the sound of it your plenty nice and anyone on this forum would be your friend in a heartbeat haha and a much better group of friends at that! Good luck to ya man!


God Bless
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710163 04/21/15 05:29 PM
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Mr Russell, friends don't take advantage, and are willing to go the distance and then some to help out a buddy. You've got a good thing going, and they are clearly taking advantage of your good nature. Any of these good men on this board would love to step up and fill their slot, and install quality blinds, bring their tractor and work the place, and buy all the beer and cook all the meals, just for a crack at hunting the place. I sure would.


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Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710167 04/21/15 05:32 PM
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Nogalus - lol.. that is what I thought too! I was raised in treating a place better than the owner does.

Really, if it had been just me and my family, we would have been more than fine with the 12x24 cabin that was there. I would have added an outhouse and called it done.

We went to the trouble to make a 24x32 cabin with all the amenities so it could house 4 guys and their families. The only real issue we have is the one family I invited originally, that knew the others and introduced them to me, has created all the drama. While I totally enjoy when they are out there, it seems they are the only ones that tend to break the rules. It is not a huge thing, but one of the other guys busts his butt out there and they go and park a pop-up in the creek that feeds the stand he uses most the time, so I set a rule up for that. Then they tell me they were bringing their mother in law out and her boyfriend, and they end up inviting them plus another couple and their kids and using a pop-up, which I caught on camera, after I told them no pop-ups.. heh

Anyway, just re-hashing this stuff. What you all say is true. They need the rules defined and then either follow or leave.

I suspect they will either clean up their act because they are good people or get totally offended and never show up again. Either of these suits me at this point.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: Navasot] #5710180 04/21/15 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
I do think I see what kinda operation this is though or at least the focus of it. Have you thought about hiring a hand? Your gona overload yourself trying to take care of to much eventually... if I was on a place like that I would expect to have to put more of my time/work into it than what your asking of them.. really cool of you though just don't be afraid to spread the load more if you will


Too small to hire someone I think. The issue becomes it is super easy to maintain...heck, I could do it alone, I just love having company out there. What I do NOT like is relying on others to do what little I need them to do and then having to 'chase them' to make sure it is done.

up till this year, I simply bought all the corn and protein because I did not want to ask "did anyone get the corn?" or the protein. Now, one of them has taken it all upon him and I am totally grateful for that...but he too should not have to do it alone. There are three of them and they should be bugging each other to get it all done AND maintaining stuff, which he has to do himself...hence why it gets ME involved because I go, "you cannot do this alone.."
All in all, fun to be had.. not a huge deal, but enough to say, "you can be replaced if you do not pull your load"

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710191 04/21/15 05:45 PM
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Hope it all works out great for you John. up


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710192 04/21/15 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: JohnRussell
Nogalus - lol.. that is what I thought too! I was raised in treating a place better than the owner does.

Really, if it had been just me and my family, we would have been more than fine with the 12x24 cabin that was there. I would have added an outhouse and called it done.

We went to the trouble to make a 24x32 cabin with all the amenities so it could house 4 guys and their families. The only real issue we have is the one family I invited originally, that knew the others and introduced them to me, has created all the drama. While I totally enjoy when they are out there, it seems they are the only ones that tend to break the rules. It is not a huge thing, but one of the other guys busts his butt out there and they go and park a pop-up in the creek that feeds the stand he uses most the time, so I set a rule up for that. Then they tell me they were bringing their mother in law out and her boyfriend, and they end up inviting them plus another couple and their kids and using a pop-up, which I caught on camera, after I told them no pop-ups.. heh

Anyway, just re-hashing this stuff. What you all say is true. They need the rules defined and then either follow or leave.

I suspect they will either clean up their act because they are good people or get totally offended and never show up again. Either of these suits me at this point.

Russ


To me, it seems you already set the rules, and they broke them. You're a nice guy to give them a second chance.

Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710202 04/21/15 05:53 PM
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Mr Russell, are you Cajun? You say "i.e." a lot, i.e. Aiieee. grin J/K.

You are being way too nice. If they were truly friends they would not be breaking your rules, they would be making sure those rules are followed. I would have a talk with the problem family separately then refresh everyone's memory of the rules. Then if they disrespect you again by breaking your rules I would not allow them back, period. They get butt hurt about it, so be it. Real friends don't act that way. There's a reason I have very few friends. Quit letting them run you over.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710209 04/21/15 05:57 PM
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lol! well, my parents are Cajun.. lol.. but I live and have almost always lived in Texas (just not when I was in the Navy).

I use i.e. a lot because I write a lot of legal documents, or did in the past, and I find examples are the best way to get a point across so they can understand.

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710219 04/21/15 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: JohnRussell
lol! well, my parents are Cajun.. lol.. but I live and have almost always lived in Texas (just not when I was in the Navy).

I use i.e. a lot because I write a lot of legal documents, or did in the past, and I find examples are the best way to get a point across so they can understand.

R


up Just poking fun.

Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710222 04/21/15 06:03 PM
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Oh hell....I would too! damn Cajuns!

lol.. it is where I get all my cookin skillz from wink My mom can't cook aaaaanything small and my wife always complains I cook for an army :P

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710229 04/21/15 06:09 PM
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skinnerback I was very tickled, i.e. amused by your Cajun reference. grin


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710233 04/21/15 06:12 PM
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When you give them the rules, I would tell them straight up, "These rules are only being formally written up because you have been unable to follow my verbal restrictions. Nobody else has a problem following my directions. If you are unable to follow the rules, the gate code will be changed and you will not be allowed back. Do you understand?" It may sound harsh, but that way they know that you are serious about the rules and the importance of following them. It sounds like you want them to be able to hunt with you but to follow the rules when doing so, and having this conversation should make it obvious that they need to shape up if they want to enjoy your generosity. If they still can't obey, that is on them and you gave them every chance to correct their behavior. I hope it works out well for you.

Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710241 04/21/15 06:19 PM
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One of those things where it's easier to take care of everything and just offer random invitations.

Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: rifleman] #5710251 04/21/15 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
One of those things where it's easier to take care of everything and just offer random invitations.


Best method. Except some folks wonder why they be waitin' so long. smile


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710255 04/21/15 06:29 PM
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That's one heck of a deal for "friends" to be taking advantage of. Hopefully things change if not it shouldn't be too hard to find some good stewards to replace them. Heck I would even show them the comments thus far to show them how ungrateful they appear in this situation. Best of luck to you Sir!


Don't take life so seriously, you'll never make it out alive!
Re: ok, would you do it? [Re: JohnRussell] #5710267 04/21/15 06:36 PM
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The older I get the more I think most people, friends or family will take advantage at some point for what ever reason and justify it in anyway they want and almost always say sorry I thought you meant something different.
And sometimes it's hard for some people to say what they want to other people because they do not want to hurt their feelings, so their point is never completely conveyed to others.
Your rules will at least get them to understand your thoughts better, I do not think I would leave the section on guests as open ended as you have, I think I would just leave it at 2 guests except for a special occasion and you always have the right to bring how many,whom ever and when ever you want.
And as you said if they do not like your rules, theres the gate. And as you can see there are alot of guys who would gladly take you up on that deal and probably bring more to table.

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