Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
LuisGabriel, marnold, Cl3anslat3, VirginiaHunter, GoGo Gadjet
60482 Registered Users
Top Posters
dogcatcher 77564
stxranchman 52092
RWH24 44568
rifleman 43788
BOBO the Clown 41125
BMD 40539
Big Orn 37484
txshntr 33685
bill oxner 32683
sig226fan (Rguns.com) 30572
facebook
Forum Stats
60482 Members
45 Forums
476317 Topics
6248250 Posts

Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#5708445 - 04/20/15 09:43 AM 16 vs 20% Protein
7ARanch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 1525
Loc: Tarrant/Jack, County
I ordered 20% and had them leave it on the loading dock at FMC in Graham since I wasn't going to make it before they closed on Sat. I got there to find 16% instead of the 20% I ordered. I took it because I figured it was better than not having it out for the deer but how much difference will it make? The price difference is only .50/50lbs so I have always gone with the 20%. If I was going to be back out in the next few weeks I would have left it but unfortunately that's not going to happen.
_________________________
Destroyer 340; Easton Flatline; Grim Reapers
Not as Mean Not as Lean but still a Marine

Billy Bob: My nose is dripping on my balls...

Top
#5708453 - 04/20/15 09:47 AM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I have always used 20% and will, but I am now finding that the mineral/trace mineral/vitamin package is way more important. IME deer will eat more 16% than 20%. As green as we are right now in my area, they are not eating any protein at all.
_________________________


Top
#5708470 - 04/20/15 09:59 AM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: stxranchman]
SniperRAB Online   content
GRAMPS!!!

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 21171
Loc: Nurturing Biosphere Mothership
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
I have always used 20% and will, but I am now finding that the mineral/trace mineral/vitamin package is way more important. IME deer will eat more 16% than 20%. As green as we are right now in my area, they are not eating any protein at all.



^^^^^^^^^
_________________________

Top
#5708498 - 04/20/15 10:18 AM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9548
Loc: Forney, Tx
Not to take this off topic, but thismay be my first year feeding protein. I've been doing a little research but would like real world experience adn answers. What is the real world cost of feeding protein year around and is that absolutey necessary?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Ever spit it out rather than swallow it?

Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
Enjoy it while you can. One day you might be complaining about NOT getting random pop-ups in the morning. grin

Top
#5708604 - 04/20/15 11:39 AM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: BigPig]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
Originally Posted By: BigPig
Not to take this off topic, but thismay be my first year feeding protein. I've been doing a little research but would like real world experience adn answers. What is the real world cost of feeding protein year around and is that absolutey necessary?

Cost is going to be dependent on many variables? Need to know density, buck to doe ratio, age structure, habitat quality, rainfall average, management goals, etc. Is it abslutely necessary? No, but IME it helps a lot in the post rut period, bad years, helps to hold deer close to property and in overall herd quality. It should be used as a supplement, available if or when they need it.
_________________________


Top
#5708642 - 04/20/15 12:03 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
deerfeeder Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 04/27/07
Posts: 7447
Loc: Southwest, Tx
16%, IMO, is more of a maintenance ration. And yes, the mineral ratios are more important than the percentage of protein. In the areas where we have had lots of rain, and where there is a lot of good natural growth, including forbs, 16%, is double now, but once it heats up, and forbs wither, and growth slows down, you might want to go bake to the 20% ration.

For the fawn crop, right now is the most important time in the doe's pregnancy. The last trimester is when the embryos grow the most. After they hit the ground you want Mama to get the best feed possible for her milk production.

In short, 16% okay now, if you have good natural food. 20% for "normal" times, higher than 20%, for free ranging deer is usually a ware of money, because they will poop out what their body doesn't need. It is basically for penned deer.Is

JMO.
_________________________


Top
#5708751 - 04/20/15 01:30 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
JohnRussell Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 1318
Loc: Cedar Creek, TX
I am going to shamelessly re-post an excellent article by Macy Ledbetter... one of the more knowledgeable folks I have come across, or at least one of the most forthcoming wink

It relates to a 24% protein block, but the info is good.

Russ


------------------------------

Minimum requirements for normal body function (blood pressure, maintain core body temperature, muscle maintenance, etc) is 12-14%. Deer cannot store or hold a reserve of protein so they expel the rest. Research has proven that a range of 16-20% is ideal for improved body condition and ultimately, antler and fawn production. So if you are feeding a feed in the 16-20% range, all is good. Anything over 20% is a waste of money and resources as deer can't, or won't utilize it. They will expel the remaining protein in the form of urine and feces so you are literally throwing your money away.
Now, under stressful conditions like drought or severe cold, offering a deer too much protein can and will harm them. They will consume it for sure but their bodies struggle with handling it so the hooves will get long (founder) and it will cause rumen bacteria/digestion issues and also give them the runs (weight loss, increased predation through smell, dehydration, etc). So offering "more is better" is NEVER the case in whitetail deer nutrition. Less is better as opposed to more is better because whitetails are browsers and they have a threshold that they live by.
So the 24% block is wasting your money because the deer may use it but only very sparingly. It will sit out in the elements much longer and may help to attract unwanted critters like raccoons, feral hogs or exotics in the neighborhood.
You have to be careful in sheep and goat country because the feed stores like to sell products directed at sheep and goats and not just whitetail deer. Sheep and goats have a rumen like a steel trap, they can and do eat almost anything. They can handle high copper levels and they can handle 45% protein levels for short periods of time. Not a whitetail, he is a picky eater with a wimpy stomach and he will either avoid the food source or eat it and expel it. I would look at the copper levels of this 24% tub and if it is in the double digits, I would save my money and walk away from it.

Macy

_________________________
Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.

Top
#5708781 - 04/20/15 01:55 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6491
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Color me skeptical, unless the higher protein food just doesn't taste very good (quite likely depending on what they remove for the extra protein).

For example:
1 lb at 16% = ~3oz of protein.
8 oz at 32% = ~3oz of protein.

This won't be the only food they eat that day, so most of this will get lost in their other forage and absorbed as needed, imo.
_________________________

Top
#5708785 - 04/20/15 01:58 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
aeb Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 16185
Loc: West Texas
My supplier carries both 16% and 20% but from two different manufacturers. He always has the 20%. He "usually" has the 16%. As a result,I feed the Purina 20% exclusively to avoid switching brands and formulations during the year. If there was a significant difference in price, I might switch but convenience wins out.
_________________________



You sure you want to poach on our place?

Top
#5708804 - 04/20/15 02:22 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
JohnRussell Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 1318
Loc: Cedar Creek, TX
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Color me skeptical, unless the higher protein food just doesn't taste very good (quite likely depending on what they remove for the extra protein).

For example:
1 lb at 16% = ~3oz of protein.
8 oz at 32% = ~3oz of protein.

This won't be the only food they eat that day, so most of this will get lost in their other forage and absorbed as needed, imo.


Heh.. it does not quite work like that, but would be nice if it did, no?

It does not hurt to feed 20%, but some cattle tubs have like 24%. That can cause a problem in the digestive issues of the deer.

An example would be if you ate too much of something... you might not feel too good and thus you might get sick, might have a little (call it bloating to be nice in a public forum.. heh) and that might cause you not to be active, eat as well etc. No-one wants to get sick ad no-one is quite right when they are. Deer are the same way.

Will it kill them to eat 20%? Nah... I think the issue is more with the 24% tubs that can sometimes be sold which are intended for cattle, not deer.

In this climate, lots of water, forbs, things growing etc.. feeding too much protein CAN be bad. Many of the brand name suppliers will fluxuate their blends depending on the time of year and the season.

For instance, in a drought when deer are stressed, feeding them a little more protein is good. They eat less and worse so you augment it. During certain times of the year you feed more or less depending on how the deer are eating.

So, again... to the question of 16 vs 20%.. right now, if you are getting a good amount of rain and things are growing which provide a good solid natural source of protein, you may not need 20% and can actually be detrimental, albeit it will not kill your deer.. heh.. but if you are trying to get the very most out of your programs, paying close attention to a 4% solution might be a difference for you.

Russ
_________________________
Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.

Top
#5708903 - 04/20/15 03:38 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
deerfeeder Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 04/27/07
Posts: 7447
Loc: Southwest, Tx
Deer, cattle, sheep and goats are all ruminants , but that doesn't mean they can all eat the same stuff. Copper, which deer need, will kill sheep.

Do some basic research, even online, and you can get more for your feed dollars.


Edited by deerfeeder (04/20/15 03:39 PM)
_________________________


Top
#5708968 - 04/20/15 04:31 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: JohnRussell]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6491
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Originally Posted By: JohnRussell
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Color me skeptical, unless the higher protein food just doesn't taste very good (quite likely depending on what they remove for the extra protein).

For example:
1 lb at 16% = ~3oz of protein.
8 oz at 32% = ~3oz of protein.

This won't be the only food they eat that day, so most of this will get lost in their other forage and absorbed as needed, imo.


Heh.. it does not quite work like that, but would be nice if it did, no?

It does not hurt to feed 20%, but some cattle tubs have like 24%. That can cause a problem in the digestive issues of the deer.

An example would be if you ate too much of something... you might not feel too good and thus you might get sick, might have a little (call it bloating to be nice in a public forum.. heh) and that might cause you not to be active, eat as well etc. No-one wants to get sick ad no-one is quite right when they are. Deer are the same way.

Will it kill them to eat 20%? Nah... I think the issue is more with the 24% tubs that can sometimes be sold which are intended for cattle, not deer.

In this climate, lots of water, forbs, things growing etc.. feeding too much protein CAN be bad. Many of the brand name suppliers will fluxuate their blends depending on the time of year and the season.

For instance, in a drought when deer are stressed, feeding them a little more protein is good. They eat less and worse so you augment it. During certain times of the year you feed more or less depending on how the deer are eating.

So, again... to the question of 16 vs 20%.. right now, if you are getting a good amount of rain and things are growing which provide a good solid natural source of protein, you may not need 20% and can actually be detrimental, albeit it will not kill your deer.. heh.. but if you are trying to get the very most out of your programs, paying close attention to a 4% solution might be a difference for you.

Russ


All things in moderation. You can eat a couple ounces of the richest cheesecake in the world and feel fine. If you eat the entire 4lb cake, you're not gonna be feeling too well.
_________________________

Top
#5709025 - 04/20/15 05:16 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: deerfeeder]
colt.45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 03/16/12
Posts: 9307
Loc: wondering about the woods
Originally Posted By: deerfeeder
Deer, cattle, sheep and goats are all ruminants , but that doesn't mean they can all eat the same stuff. Copper, which deer need, will kill sheep.

Do some basic research, even online, and you can get more for your feed dollars.

cheers Walmart had the 1gal. Roasted Corn Freaks dang fine print, even with glasses, can't see what it has for protein, its more a sweet & salty instant mineral lick supercharged deer attractant . Havent had any luck with it yet, even hogs havent been impressed with it mixed with corn. Got it in a home made drip bottle. Like others have said lots of forage on the ground, Blessed with the rain, plenty of of brows, see more signs at minneral lick & blocks set out whin weather warms up. Good topic, carry on flag
_________________________

i'm postaddic

Top
#5709059 - 04/20/15 05:39 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: colt.45]
therancher Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 5355
Loc: Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
I've always been told that you want 16% for does during summer fawning.
_________________________
"I cant wait to see if he plays this week, and if he does if he can actually break 50 percent completion ratio. Haha or maybe even throw for 200 yards. Possibly break a QB rating of 75." - Texas Tatonka
www.bigironranchadventures.com

Top
#5709071 - 04/20/15 05:54 PM Re: 16 vs 20% Protein [Re: 7ARanch]
7ARanch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/13/10
Posts: 1525
Loc: Tarrant/Jack, County
Thanks for the input.
Farmers Milling Co (FMC) in Graham makes their own feed. They called and apologized today for the mix up. They also told me the mineral % are the same in both protein levels. We are all greened up right now so there is a better than fair chance this will sit for awhile which is fine because they ate me out of house and home last year... The deer have done well on the mix and it certainly keeps them coming back which is important since I have a small property but no one within miles of me feeds and food plots like I do so my deer density is pretty good for the amount of land I have. They don't necessarily bed there but show up pretty daily when I have the protein going.
The Guaranteed Analysis is:
Crude Protein 16%
" Fat Min 2.5%
" Crude Fiber Max 8%
" Calcium Min .75%
" Calcium Max 1.25%
" Phosphorus Min .5%
Vit A Min 10,000 IU/A
Vit E and D Supplement (no Quantity on label)
_________________________
Destroyer 340; Easton Flatline; Grim Reapers
Not as Mean Not as Lean but still a Marine

Billy Bob: My nose is dripping on my balls...

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



© 2004-2016 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide