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SWFA Returns? #5694222 04/10/15 10:11 PM
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Has anyone had to return anything to SWFA if so how was the process for you?

I ask because I ordered a pricy set of EGW rings in High per their recommendation over the phone. When I received the rings I put them on the base (hand tight) and removed the top rings set my scope in the mounts and instantly saw that they were too tall. No big deal. Took a measurement called them back and told them the height ring I was in need of. They put my order in for the new rings but informed me since I removed the original rings from the package they are no longer in new condition and cannot be returned. I stressed the fact that nothing was torqued to no avail.

I understand I ordered over the phone and the salesman was very helpful in the process of giving me his recommendations on what I needed sight unseen. I gave him all the info on the gun and scope and we took an educated guess at the ring height. Which turned out to be incorrect. But to not exchange the rings 5 days afterwards seems a bit unnecessary.

I have always had great service from them in the past. So I feel like I'm missing something.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694256 04/10/15 10:48 PM
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That's pretty poopy of them

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694269 04/10/15 11:02 PM
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They have a fancy new store, are stocking a lot more items; maybe other things are changing there as well. The last time I was there, I didn't get great service. I did get what I needed for a reasonable price.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694291 04/10/15 11:22 PM
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I have gave them a few $$+ and am close to making another scope purchase. I hate to keep hearing these things. At this point I do not not even shop anymore. I figure out what I want and buy from them. Their CS has always been top notch with me.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694343 04/11/15 12:05 AM
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BTW they opened 3 sets of rings there in the store on my last purchase to fit my rifle and scope. They didn't even blink, he did the fitting and worked on it till it was right. Didn't say anything about the first two sets of rings being open.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694705 04/11/15 10:24 AM
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I went down to their store a few weeks ago to get rings and some ammo for my new scope and rifle. They were extremely helpful. And I talked to Skylar on the phone a few times before I went and he was always very willing to give me advice on a number of different topics. I'm a little surprised to hear they won't take the rings back, but being opened is nearly always a reason that a store won't accept a return. Did you have to destroy the package to get them out, or would anyone even know if they were opened? If you destroyed the package to get them out, I can see why SWFA wouldn't take them. How can they sell those to another customer? If the package isn't destroyed, then just send them back and ask for the refund. Who cares if you can't tell they were opened? They might have been opened by 3 customers before you.

I'm sure they'll give you some trade-in value because they can sell them as used. It's just kind of the nature of the beast really. Shopping for the best fit on the phone is risky.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694805 04/11/15 01:31 PM
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The box snaps open and back closed. I didn't have to cut or destroy anything. I could've just put them back in the box and never said anything. But I honestly would never have thought I would have to lie to return products.

Oh well I guess I have a very high dollar set of paper weights now.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5694885 04/11/15 03:05 PM
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Just put them back in original packaging and return them.


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Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: Cast] #5695516 04/12/15 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cast
Just put them back in original packaging and return them.


I'd do this.


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Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: Cast] #5696997 04/13/15 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cast
Just put them back in original packaging and return them.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5697100 04/13/15 01:23 PM
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If you paid for them with a Credit Card, call the CC Customer Svc line and solicit help from there, beginning with having the charge cancelled/reversed - put into a suspense file - and taken off your monthly statement...don't ask me how I know that.

AFTER the charge is removed/refunded from your billing, the retailer can argue as long as they want about the intended functionality of the choice of the product they sold you. Be sure to OFFER to send the product back AT THEIR EXPENSE whenever they want it.

Works on retailers that refuse to honor promised services or stand behind product they sell, on hotels and restaurants that refuse to honor promised services yadda yadda yadda....and the TX Dept of Consumer Affairs can be really helpful too.

FWIW IMO This incident seems like it reeks of being able to return something that the retailer's EE suggested you buy, and did not perform as the EE's opinion suggested it should/would.

Coupled with my own lack of ability in establishing a confident buying decision communication with this retailer in recent months, and following how this incident has played out, I've been buying the same kinda optics stuff as planned for this makeover I'm going thru elewhere, and spent more money so far this year than I've spent in the last 5+ years in this category of product, and am not quite done yet. Just Sayin'


Don't be rude, don't yell & scream...and DON'T take NO for an answer either. Never Forget ...the Retailer needs you more than you need them.

IMO I found that AMEX is the best at this Satisfaction Resolution thingy when I was running $100-150K a year in T&E Expenses "back in the day" some 30 years ago traveling a national territory...but an everyday consumer level VISA/MC account ain't bad to work with either, 'specially when you have a high FICO Score and an unblemished long term payment record...and multiple open accounts that the VISA/MC vendor can see and potentially lose the $$ volume of your daily charges to a sister VISA vendor. Banks CC Operations have to compete for your business too.
Ron

Last edited by WileyCoyote; 04/13/15 01:51 PM.

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Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5697170 04/13/15 02:02 PM
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I always deal with Skylar and never had any issues! Best optic company I have worked with


"From my cold dead hands"

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do."

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Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5699342 04/14/15 03:57 PM
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They can get a bit busy but they care about their customers. One time I had an unusually long wait and Skylar went out of his way to make it right without me asking. He knows I'll be back no matter what too.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5700096 04/14/15 11:25 PM
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Skylar is who told me I was in possession of "used" rings and couldn't take them back. With that said prior to this skylar has been very helpful. He just dropped the ball on this one. I will probably take my business elsewhere in the future.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5700099 04/14/15 11:27 PM
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Anyone need a set of new EGW 30mm tactical rings in High?
Make you a heckuva deal.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5702177 04/16/15 03:05 AM
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They've become a little difficult to deal with on things like this lately. Perhaps it's because the cost of doing business? I'm sure it has gone up a lot since they moved into their new place. Anyway they used to be utterly fantastic but now they are just another retailer. I used to always give them the first shot but no longer.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5703151 04/16/15 07:16 PM
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While I cannot speak on behalf of what was discussed at the time you placed your order, I can tell you, without having the firearm here to take measurements from, we, at least I do, refrain from recommending ring heights over the phone.

Unfortunately this is a very tough question to answer without having the rifle here. There are several comprehensive aspects when it comes to mounting that I evaluate.

Bolt and Action clearance?
Objective bell clearance?
Ocular Bell clearance?
Are we set up for a solid cheek weld?
Is this going to give us adequate eye relief?

Trying to do this over the phone or through email is nearly unfathomable, because not all manufactures follow the same guide lines in measuring or manufacturing…it’s something that I have to put on the bench and measure.

Located under About Us at the bottom of SWFA.com's Homepage, we notate:
Originally Posted By: SWFA's Website
We do business based on a very simple idea. If you are not 100% satisfied with our products or service, we'll refund your money! Just return any new unused item to us within 10 days from the date delivered. Include a copy of your receipt and we will issue a refund. Shipping charges are not refundable and we can not accept returns on special order items.

No C.O.D.'s. All Warranties are through the manufacturer only. No warranties are expressed or implied by S.W.F.A.. Prices' do not include shipping and handling. Texas residents add 8.25% sales tax. Prices are subject to change without notice. S.W.F.A. is not responsible for mis-prints or errors, Personal and or business checks are held 10 days. Once you mount a scope it becomes used product and used products are not eligible for refund, exchange, or return (placing the scope in rings constitutes mounting). We only ship to United States of America addresses. Returns are subject to a 15% Restocking Fee.


The facts are that you told me over the phone that you mounted them, rendering them used.
Taking it back and trying to remarket to it to someone else to sell is not ethical. It is not our business model to cheat people out of product, let alone their money.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5703217 04/16/15 08:02 PM
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Swfa rocks!!! will be calling skylar soon to order a vortex razor!


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Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5703272 04/16/15 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: TGreen
Anyone need a set of new EGW 30mm tactical rings in High?
Make you a heckuva deal.


Sent you a PM in case you're serious about this.


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https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: Skylar Mac] #5704068 04/17/15 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: Skylar@SWFA
While I cannot speak on behalf of what was discussed at the time you placed your order, I can tell you, without having the firearm here to take measurements from, we, at least I do, refrain from recommending ring heights over the phone.

Unfortunately this is a very tough question to answer without having the rifle here. There are several comprehensive aspects when it comes to mounting that I evaluate.

Bolt and Action clearance?
Objective bell clearance?
Ocular Bell clearance?
Are we set up for a solid cheek weld?
Is this going to give us adequate eye relief?

Trying to do this over the phone or through email is nearly unfathomable, because not all manufactures follow the same guide lines in measuring or manufacturing…it’s something that I have to put on the bench and measure.

Located under About Us at the bottom of SWFA.com's Homepage, we notate:
Originally Posted By: SWFA's Website
We do business based on a very simple idea. If you are not 100% satisfied with our products or service, we'll refund your money! Just return any new unused item to us within 10 days from the date delivered. Include a copy of your receipt and we will issue a refund. Shipping charges are not refundable and we can not accept returns on special order items.

No C.O.D.'s. All Warranties are through the manufacturer only. No warranties are expressed or implied by S.W.F.A.. Prices' do not include shipping and handling. Texas residents add 8.25% sales tax. Prices are subject to change without notice. S.W.F.A. is not responsible for mis-prints or errors, Personal and or business checks are held 10 days. Once you mount a scope it becomes used product and used products are not eligible for refund, exchange, or return (placing the scope in rings constitutes mounting). We only ship to United States of America addresses. Returns are subject to a 15% Restocking Fee.


The facts are that you told me over the phone that you mounted them, rendering them used.
Taking it back and trying to remarket to it to someone else to sell is not ethical. It is not our business model to cheat people out of product, let alone their money.



I COMPLETELY understand how hard it is for yall to take limited info over the phone and try to piece together a system for someone sight unseen. But with that said chances are they are gonna have to take that product out of the packaging to see if it is going to fit properly on the given platform. If it doesn't fit now what? Tough luck Customer Joe.
Do you use different types of rings and different heights when you fit and mount a scope in your shop? If so then by your definition you are selling "used" rings to other unsuspecting customers. Do I think this is bad business ethics? Absolutely not. Just because you place a ring on a base to check the fit doesn't make it a used product in my eyes. Not every brand new truck that's been test driven has to be sold on the used lot.
YOU made a recommendation on a set of Talleys for my wife's rifle over the phone. It was perfect. Could not have been happier. You didn't seem to refrain from making recommendations that day and it worked out for both of us.
The 2nd set of rings I bought from you ( can't recall who sold me the 1st set, very nice guy though) for this particular rifle was perfect. Literally couldn't fit any better. But the 1st set that did not fit can't be returned after leaving the factory packaging for an incredible 15 minutes are now useless. I should probably send them in for scrap metal price so no ones gets ahold of these now that they are all used up.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5710527 04/21/15 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: TGreen
Originally Posted By: Skylar@SWFA
While I cannot speak on behalf of what was discussed at the time you placed your order, I can tell you, without having the firearm here to take measurements from, we, at least I do, refrain from recommending ring heights over the phone.

Unfortunately this is a very tough question to answer without having the rifle here. There are several comprehensive aspects when it comes to mounting that I evaluate.

Bolt and Action clearance?
Objective bell clearance?
Ocular Bell clearance?
Are we set up for a solid cheek weld?
Is this going to give us adequate eye relief?

Trying to do this over the phone or through email is nearly unfathomable, because not all manufactures follow the same guide lines in measuring or manufacturing…it’s something that I have to put on the bench and measure.

Located under About Us at the bottom of SWFA.com's Homepage, we notate:
Originally Posted By: SWFA's Website
We do business based on a very simple idea. If you are not 100% satisfied with our products or service, we'll refund your money! Just return any new unused item to us within 10 days from the date delivered. Include a copy of your receipt and we will issue a refund. Shipping charges are not refundable and we can not accept returns on special order items.

No C.O.D.'s. All Warranties are through the manufacturer only. No warranties are expressed or implied by S.W.F.A.. Prices' do not include shipping and handling. Texas residents add 8.25% sales tax. Prices are subject to change without notice. S.W.F.A. is not responsible for mis-prints or errors, Personal and or business checks are held 10 days. Once you mount a scope it becomes used product and used products are not eligible for refund, exchange, or return (placing the scope in rings constitutes mounting). We only ship to United States of America addresses. Returns are subject to a 15% Restocking Fee.


The facts are that you told me over the phone that you mounted them, rendering them used.
Taking it back and trying to remarket to it to someone else to sell is not ethical. It is not our business model to cheat people out of product, let alone their money.



I COMPLETELY understand how hard it is for yall to take limited info over the phone and try to piece together a system for someone sight unseen. But with that said chances are they are gonna have to take that product out of the packaging to see if it is going to fit properly on the given platform. If it doesn't fit now what? Tough luck Customer Joe.
Do you use different types of rings and different heights when you fit and mount a scope in your shop? If so then by your definition you are selling "used" rings to other unsuspecting customers. Do I think this is bad business ethics? Absolutely not. Just because you place a ring on a base to check the fit doesn't make it a used product in my eyes. Not every brand new truck that's been test driven has to be sold on the used lot.
YOU made a recommendation on a set of Talleys for my wife's rifle over the phone. It was perfect. Could not have been happier. You didn't seem to refrain from making recommendations that day and it worked out for both of us.
The 2nd set of rings I bought from you ( can't recall who sold me the 1st set, very nice guy though) for this particular rifle was perfect. Literally couldn't fit any better. But the 1st set that did not fit can't be returned after leaving the factory packaging for an incredible 15 minutes are now useless. I should probably send them in for scrap metal price so no ones gets ahold of these now that they are all used up.



Let's take into consideration a what if perhaps?

Say SWFA took just took everything back as a return on all the items that had been taken out of their OEM packaging, then mounted...and then took the customer's word that the item in question was still in "like new condition" completely unblemished, yet when we receive the item and despite what was explained over the phone or through email, the screws were missing, or it was scratched, or perhaps marred up after being matted to the bases it was attached to with visible signs of use?
Without a doubt the product is still functional, like a new item would be, but not from a cosmetic perspective.
What recourse would a company have then? The company already issued a refund or replacement. Now said company is stuck with a returned item that can not be used, let alone remarketing it to someone else as "Like New"


What if you received the a set of rings in this condition that you paid in full, expecting a new item in a sealed package? Would you be upset? So would many others, given the scenario.

Asking SWFA to take you for your word and what you say, that the rings are in totally new condition when you explained over the phone that you mounted it to your rifle.
I'm sure that you mean no ill will and you're a nice guy and please don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that your trying to be deceitful, but if we used that same precedent with everyone and took everyone's word, how could we be certain , sight unseen that the returned items remain in new, pristine condition with out any signs of use?
We have a adopted a returns policy that we feel is reasonable and that even many other retailers utilize, that if you remove the product from the package and use it, its is a used item.

It is possible to determine the proper ring height before bedding the scope in the rings and then mounting it to your rifle.
Case in point, there is an old thread I posted on this subject, taken from information we use here everyday. How to determine the proper Ring Height >>> Link <<<
In store if asked which ring height, we will always err on the side of being slightly taller, to prevent being too short and creating interference with the bolt.

This isn't quite the same scenario as rings used to mount scopes here in the store. Simply because as soon as we mount rings, they are then also considered used items, same for when as if the customer did it himself, and the customer accepts that fact.
Plus, we are able to visibly inspect the rings we mount to ensure they are not blemished in an way, which we do not have the benefit of doing so prior to someone returning the product to SWFA.

There are occasions where people will ask this question and then ask what do I use. I will explain that I am partial to Seekins and Talley, which I am. All of my rifles use those two components as a mounting solution. Then I will explain what I have and what steps I took to draw that conclusion of what I used, but that is not to be taken as a recommendation. It's sharing what my rig is outfitted with.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5710864 04/22/15 02:05 AM
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Tag - Ring Heights


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: Skylar Mac] #5713960 04/24/15 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: wp75169
BTW they opened 3 sets of rings there in the store on my last purchase to fit my rifle and scope. They didn't even blink, he did the fitting and worked on it till it was right. Didn't say anything about the first two sets of rings being open.
Originally Posted By: Skylar@SWFA
Originally Posted By: TGreen
Originally Posted By: Skylar@SWFA
While I cannot speak on behalf of what was discussed at the time you placed your order, I can tell you, without having the firearm here to take measurements from, we, at least I do, refrain from recommending ring heights over the phone.

Unfortunately this is a very tough question to answer without having the rifle here. There are several comprehensive aspects when it comes to mounting that I evaluate.

Bolt and Action clearance?
Objective bell clearance?
Ocular Bell clearance?
Are we set up for a solid cheek weld?
Is this going to give us adequate eye relief?

Trying to do this over the phone or through email is nearly unfathomable, because not all manufactures follow the same guide lines in measuring or manufacturing…it’s something that I have to put on the bench and measure.

Located under About Us at the bottom of SWFA.com's Homepage, we notate:
Originally Posted By: SWFA's Website
We do business based on a very simple idea. If you are not 100% satisfied with our products or service, we'll refund your money! Just return any new unused item to us within 10 days from the date delivered. Include a copy of your receipt and we will issue a refund. Shipping charges are not refundable and we can not accept returns on special order items.

No C.O.D.'s. All Warranties are through the manufacturer only. No warranties are expressed or implied by S.W.F.A.. Prices' do not include shipping and handling. Texas residents add 8.25% sales tax. Prices are subject to change without notice. S.W.F.A. is not responsible for mis-prints or errors, Personal and or business checks are held 10 days. Once you mount a scope it becomes used product and used products are not eligible for refund, exchange, or return (placing the scope in rings constitutes mounting). We only ship to United States of America addresses. Returns are subject to a 15% Restocking Fee.


The facts are that you told me over the phone that you mounted them, rendering them used.
Taking it back and trying to remarket to it to someone else to sell is not ethical. It is not our business model to cheat people out of product, let alone their money.



I COMPLETELY understand how hard it is for yall to take limited info over the phone and try to piece together a system for someone sight unseen. But with that said chances are they are gonna have to take that product out of the packaging to see if it is going to fit properly on the given platform. If it doesn't fit now what? Tough luck Customer Joe.
Do you use different types of rings and different heights when you fit and mount a scope in your shop? If so then by your definition you are selling "used" rings to other unsuspecting customers. Do I think this is bad business ethics? Absolutely not. Just because you place a ring on a base to check the fit doesn't make it a used product in my eyes. Not every brand new truck that's been test driven has to be sold on the used lot.
YOU made a recommendation on a set of Talleys for my wife's rifle over the phone. It was perfect. Could not have been happier. You didn't seem to refrain from making recommendations that day and it worked out for both of us.
The 2nd set of rings I bought from you ( can't recall who sold me the 1st set, very nice guy though) for this particular rifle was perfect. Literally couldn't fit any better. But the 1st set that did not fit can't be returned after leaving the factory packaging for an incredible 15 minutes are now useless. I should probably send them in for scrap metal price so no ones gets ahold of these now that they are all used up.



Let's take into consideration a what if perhaps?

Say SWFA took just took everything back as a return on all the items that had been taken out of their OEM packaging, then mounted...and then took the customer's word that the item in question was still in "like new condition" completely unblemished, yet when we receive the item and despite what was explained over the phone or through email, the screws were missing, or it was scratched, or perhaps marred up after being matted to the bases it was attached to with visible signs of use?
Without a doubt the product is still functional, like a new item would be, but not from a cosmetic perspective.
What recourse would a company have then? The company already issued a refund or replacement. Now said company is stuck with a returned item that can not be used, let alone remarketing it to someone else as "Like New"


What if you received the a set of rings in this condition that you paid in full, expecting a new item in a sealed package? Would you be upset? So would many others, given the scenario.

Asking SWFA to take you for your word and what you say, that the rings are in totally new condition when you explained over the phone that you mounted it to your rifle.
I'm sure that you mean no ill will and you're a nice guy and please don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that your trying to be deceitful, but if we used that same precedent with everyone and took everyone's word, how could we be certain , sight unseen that the returned items remain in new, pristine condition with out any signs of use?
We have a adopted a returns policy that we feel is reasonable and that even many other retailers utilize, that if you remove the product from the package and use it, its is a used item.

It is possible to determine the proper ring height before bedding the scope in the rings and then mounting it to your rifle.
Case in point, there is an old thread I posted on this subject, taken from information we use here everyday. How to determine the proper Ring Height >>> Link <<<
In store if asked which ring height, we will always err on the side of being slightly taller, to prevent being too short and creating interference with the bolt.

This isn't quite the same scenario as rings used to mount scopes here in the store. Simply because as soon as we mount rings, they are then also considered used items, same for when as if the customer did it himself, and the customer accepts that fact.
Plus, we are able to visibly inspect the rings we mount to ensure they are not blemished in an way, which we do not have the benefit of doing so prior to someone returning the product to SWFA.

There are occasions where people will ask this question and then ask what do I use. I will explain that I am partial to Seekins and Talley, which I am. All of my rifles use those two components as a mounting solution. Then I will explain what I have and what steps I took to draw that conclusion of what I used, but that is not to be taken as a recommendation. It's sharing what my rig is outfitted with.


so than how do you reconcile the first statement. If I go there i can open rings and put them on my rifle but if i did it over the phone SOL.

I agree that if i bought something i expect to get something new. But apparently you will open things in store than sell them as new.

Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5714269 04/24/15 09:03 AM
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booradley Offline
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At Cabela's the customer usually asks me to pick the rings for his rifle. I get it right most of the time but occasionally I get it wrong, not with the objective touching the barrel but with the bolt handle touching the ocular. In that case I get another set of higher rings and put the ones that don't work back in the package. I consider them new because they haven't been torqued down or anything, just set on top of the mounts to see if they will work. We will sell those again, there is nothing wrong with them and there are no scratches. Cabela's also accepts returns on rings and bases that have been mounted. But there is a huge difference between Cabela's and SWFA. Cabela's is a huge company with many stores. They have a very customer friendly return policy because they can afford to. Many times I've refused a return only to have a manager over rule me. SWFA cannot afford to give returns as freely as Cabela's because they are built on a different business model and cannot afford to. That is just the way it us. If SWFA had many many stores they would have a more lenient return policy. But then they wouldn't be SWFA, a business that sells optics as their main source of business. They would sell everything under the sun like we do and wouldn't be able to offer the specialized product they offer. I've spoken to Skylar on the phone on several occasions when I did not have what my customer was looking for, and sent the customer to him. I find him to be ethical and professional as a competitor.


Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
Re: SWFA Returns? [Re: TGreen] #5723035 04/30/15 04:41 AM
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longhorn_cop Offline
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Could SWFA not get the returned item and verify the condition of the mounts then issue credit if all is good?
So if a customer returns an item and gives their word that the return is in new condition, a credit is given before the returned item is received? Then what if the returned item is damaged or never arrives?

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