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What caliber? #5697904 04/13/15 08:27 PM
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Long range shooting has peaked my interest in the past few months and I'm starting to plan the purchase/build of my next gun. This is just the early planning on my part since this gun isn't going to come over night. The boss lady (wife) says I have to plan/save up for this one, since I figured it would cost me a good bit.

I got to shoot an extended family members suppressed .243 bolt rifle out to 400 yards and haven't stopped thinking about a new gun since then. I know 400 yards isn't very long range, but before I shot his, the longest shot I had taken was 150-175 yards. Shooting this gun is what started my new found obsession lol

Primary use will be whitetail hunting and shooting at the range, but I would like to be able to shoot elk with it as well.

My initial thoughts on caliber was a 7mm mag, but I wasn't sure if there was a better option out there. I do want to suppress it, shoot out to 1000 yards, and keep in mind about the hunting I said above.

Suggestions?

I hear a lot of good things about this 6.5 creedmore and long range, but is it elk worthy? I have zero experience with elk hunting, but that's changing this October up I will be taking my 30-06 this year, but in years to come is what I'm planning for.



Last edited by ZK-315; 04/13/15 08:30 PM.
Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5697918 04/13/15 08:33 PM
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Oh, just thought I would add that it will be a bolt gun. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5697919 04/13/15 08:36 PM
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Throwing elk into the mix makes me lean towards the 7mag more than anything smaller. However considering that elk hunting will probably comprise less than 1% of your hunting/shooting needs I would probably still look into something like a 6.5 CM, 6.5x55, 7mm 08, 280 rem.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5697938 04/13/15 08:46 PM
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300WM can do some nasty stuff at distance.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: redchevy] #5697947 04/13/15 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
6.5 CM, 6.5x55, 7mm 08, 280 rem.


So these are still perfectly capable for elk at decent range? Not saying I want to shoot an elk at 1000 yards, but something better than the guys that say "oh I shot an elk with my 243. Get you a 243". Not looking to start that war ha

Only reason I ask, I don't have any experience with those calibers what-so-ever. Just trying to expand some knowledge. My knowledge of calibers are basically limited to 22-250, 25-06, 30-06, 7mm mag and that's it.

Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5697965 04/13/15 09:01 PM
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Everything is a give and take in shooting. The larger the bullet, and the faster you push it, the more energy and the more recoil you will have. 300WM with a high BC bullet for long range has some stiff recoil unbraked. The smaller 7mm bullets will have a little less recoil. Same with a 6.5mm. A well placed shot with a 6.5mm bullet will do fine for elk. I would get a caliber that will allow you to practice enough to get proficient with your rifle and ammo. Most shooters get a rifle that they only put a few rounds down range with. Find a caliber that will allow you to shoot it often enough without breaking the bank and allow you to practice with it year round. A good 6.5mm or 7mm is fine. I love a good hard hitting 300 Win Mag for me, though.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5697975 04/13/15 09:05 PM
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Unfortunately the best scenario involves two rifles.

The rifle to learn on being a short action with low recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor is an outstanding choice for that. I have one and really enjoy shooting it, but I don't elk hunt with it.

I elk and Mule deer hunt with a custom 7 Rem Mag shooting 180 gr Berger VLDs. But it costs more to feed, recoils more, and will have a fairly short barrel life. It hits like a train, and is fun to shoot, but I only bring it out on special occasions.

To get good at shooting distance you need instruction and lots of practice, which puts us right back to a short action, such as the 6.5 Creedmoor, or 7mm-08. You could kill elk with them rovided you maintained a maximum distance rule for yourself, and used a good stout bullet.

Then there's one more option, dipping into both sides of this spectrum. That being a 6.5-06 or a 280 A.I. It's got more recoil than the 6.5 Creedmoor, but not as much as the 7 Rem Mag. Either of those would be a dang good choice for the "one rifle man" scenario.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: J.G.] #5697985 04/13/15 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Then there's one more option, dipping into both sides of this spectrum. That being a 6.5-06 or a 280 A.I. It's got more recoil than the 6.5 Creedmoor, but not as much as the 7 Rem Mag. Either of those would be a dang good choice for the "one rifle man" scenario.


The 280 Rem would be a very good one. The 6.5-06 would also be great, but you would have to hand load or have someone like myself load the ammo for you. One of these days I will have a 6.5-06.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5697995 04/13/15 09:16 PM
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My general thought process is this. If a 270 is considered an acceptable elk round then a 7mm-08/6.5CM/260 rem/6.5x55 should also all be adequate for the job.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ChadTRG42] #5697997 04/13/15 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Everything is a give and take in shooting. The larger the bullet, and the faster you push it, the more energy and the more recoil you will have. 300WM with a high BC bullet for long range has some stiff recoil unbraked. The smaller 7mm bullets will have a little less recoil. Same with a 6.5mm. A well placed shot with a 6.5mm bullet will do fine for elk. I would get a caliber that will allow you to practice enough to get proficient with your rifle and ammo. Most shooters get a rifle that they only put a few rounds down range with. Find a caliber that will allow you to shoot it often enough without breaking the bank and allow you to practice with it year round. A good 6.5mm or 7mm is fine. I love a good hard hitting 300 Win Mag for me, though.


How's recoil on the 300 win mag vs a 30-06? Are they decent to suppress? Suppressing is something I've also been trying to read more into and still learning about as well.

Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698007 04/13/15 09:20 PM
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Which leads me to the next question. A gigantic factor is shooting small and shootinf far is very consistent ammo. Do you load your own?

If the answer is no, then you have three options.

1. Add the purchase of the handloading equipment to the bill.
2. Hire Chad to develop a load for what ever chambering you decide on.
3. Get a 6.5 Creedmoor and buy Hornady ammunition.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: J.G.] #5698010 04/13/15 09:21 PM
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Yep, there are no flies on the 7mmRM for big game up to elk and moose. With it I took 3 of my 7 bull elk and 2 of my 4 moose. But I have to tell you, of the eleven animals, not one was taken over 285 yards. My biggest moose, from the Hoholitna River country of Alaska, was taken at some 14 steps!


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698025 04/13/15 09:27 PM
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You can go to the link below and play with the recoil amounts. It really depends on the weight of the rifle. The 300 WM will have more recoil than a 30-06, since it launches the same bullet about 150-200 fps faster.

You can easily suppress a 300 Win Mag. You just have to get one rated for a magnum round. I'd recommend a Crux Suppressor (Templar Tactical). Curtis builds a 308 Win can and rates it for 300 Win Mag.

The main issue I have suppressing a 300 Win Mag is pressure and recoil. I run a stiff load on my 300 WM with a 225 grain BTHP at 2802 fps unsuppressed and 2920 fps suppressed. This load is a hot load suppressed, and I don't shoot it much. But it shoots freakin' awesome. To run a 300WM suppressed, I would normally back down the load so it's safe with the can on, which means my unsuppressed load would be a mild to medium load. The suppressor adds a lot of back pressure to your rifle, bumping up the pressures. So a normal load is now a hot load suppressed.

On the recoil, a muzzle brake has a quick recoil impulse and allows me to recover from recoil very quickly. When I shoot suppressed, the recoil impulse is very long with a large shove, and I can not recover from recoil as quick. So, I prefer to shoot my 300 WM braked.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698061 04/13/15 09:42 PM
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Yall all type too fast lol.

I'm also about to start reloading and realize that will be a whole new learning curve.

All of what yall have said so far makes perfect sense in regards to using 2 different guns instead of 1 gun for it all...which may eventually happen. I'm not too terribly shy of bigger recoil, as I'm not a small guy. But smaller recoil is never a bad thing lol. I have shot 1 gun before and after a brake. My uncle had, I believe it was a 280, and the brake did change the recoil quite a bit from what I remember. The only reason I don't like brakes are how loud they are.

Essentially what I'm trying to do is put my 30-06 into the gun safe so I can pass it down to one of my kids or grandkids when the time comes. It was passed down to me by my grandfather and its a heck of a shooter, but it has a lot of sentimental value so I don't want to booger it up with a whole lot of use.




Last edited by ZK-315; 04/13/15 09:43 PM.
Re: What caliber? [Re: J.G.] #5698094 04/13/15 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Unfortunately the best scenario involves two rifles.

The rifle to learn on being a short action with low recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor is an outstanding choice for that. I have one and really enjoy shooting it, but I don't elk hunt with it.

I elk and Mule deer hunt with a custom 7 Rem Mag shooting 180 gr Berger VLDs. But it costs more to feed, recoils more, and will have a fairly short barrel life. It hits like a train, and is fun to shoot, but I only bring it out on special occasions.

To get good at shooting distance you need instruction and lots of practice, which puts us right back to a short action, such as the 6.5 Creedmoor, or 7mm-08. You could kill elk with them rovided you maintained a maximum distance rule for yourself, and used a good stout bullet.

Then there's one more option, dipping into both sides of this spectrum. That being a 6.5-06 or a 280 A.I. It's got more recoil than the 6.5 Creedmoor, but not as much as the 7 Rem Mag. Either of those would be a dang good choice for the "one rifle man" scenario.


This helps a lot. I've got someone that can teach me the long range shooting at his house, but I cant afford his arsenal. It seems he has a different gun for each animal roflmao
I would like to come up and take one of your classes at some point after I pick up a gun, though.
You and Chad are helping me out a lot so far. Thanks for all of the info thus far.

Last edited by ZK-315; 04/13/15 09:56 PM.
Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698097 04/13/15 09:53 PM
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Sounds like another thought is get a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5X55, 7mm-08...(there are many others) and keep the 30-06 for the kids and an elk hunt if and when you go. The others will recoil less allowing you to shoot more.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698102 04/13/15 09:56 PM
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If the elk variable wasn't in there, I'd vote 6.5 Creedmoor

Re: What caliber? [Re: kmon11] #5698103 04/13/15 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: kmon1
Sounds like another thought is get a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5X55, 7mm-08...(there are many others) and keep the 30-06 for the kids and an elk hunt if and when you go. The others will recoil less allowing you to shoot more.



That's kind of what it's sounding like from what Fireman and Chad are saying.

Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698107 04/13/15 09:59 PM
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There's nothing wrong with a 7mm-08 or a 280 Rem pushing a 162 A-max, 168 Berger VLD, maybe a 180 VLD.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698113 04/13/15 10:02 PM
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6.5 Creedmoor

Elk hunt with the .30-06 you already have.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698134 04/13/15 10:10 PM
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By the time you buy the 6.5 and quality glass, reloading equipment, and suppressor, you're going to be looking at a steep bill. For not that much more you can add a decent 7mag or 300 WM that you can swap the scope to when you decide to go elk hunting, since from your tone seems like it's not going to be an every year deal. Or just borrow a rifle when the time comes, or break out the '06 for some nostalgia.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698135 04/13/15 10:10 PM
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In order to learn to shoot LR you'll need to shoot lots & lots & lots of ammo...and learn to reload to keep that ammo at a "reasonable" cost.

I'd suggest thinking about building a LR rifle in a 7-08 - less recoil & powder per round and GTG out to waaay out there with good bullets & a Hunting rifle in a semi custom long barreled 280AI or 7RMg set up for longer shots at eating kinda critters...and use as many of the same 7mm caliber based components as possible to keep the supply list as short & plentiful as possible with common powders/bullets/primers etc.

Like KMon sez ...The 30'06 is always a good choice for the kids, for Elk & ?? bigger critters with reloads tailored for a specific job & as a back up for Hunting & be able to "buy ammo anywhere" yadda yadda
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Re: What caliber? [Re: ZK-315] #5698149 04/13/15 10:14 PM
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What would be wrong with 308 win?

Re: What caliber? [Re: gusick] #5698192 04/13/15 10:36 PM
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Nothing. It has a medium BC and isn't fast.

A newbie has lots of misses especially with a .308 due to wrong wind judgement. Once you get to 400 on my range, your 5 mph wind hold with a .308, puts you holding off target. The 6.5's and the 7's are still holding on target. So there's more forgiveness with the higher BC and faster bullets is all.

But the barrel on a .308 will last a crazy long time.


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Re: What caliber? [Re: J.G.] #5698205 04/13/15 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
6.5 Creedmoor

Elk hunt with the .30-06 you already have.


This is the most sensible answer.

At the risk of getting flamed, I will tell you that you will never shoot an elk, or any other North American big game, at over 400 yards....and probably less than 300 yards. So while it's nice to dream about LR shots at game, in real life it won't happen.

Now, there's nothing wrong with playing the LR game, and ringing steel gongs out to 1000 yds will be great fun and invaluable practice. And there's nothing wrong with building up a dedicated LR rifle and shooting away; after all we boys MUST have our toys!

But when the bullet meets the bone, a sporter-weight bolt gun with a 2x7 or 3x9 scope (or even a fixed 4x or 6x) is the time-honored and proven recipe for the perfect hunting rifle. Chamber it in 7mmRM, .300WM, or even the ubiquitous .30-06, and go forth!



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