I would go 7mag and learn to shoot it.

If you are not hunting elk often, I would use the 30.06 you already have.
I would choose your next gun in what you are going to use it for the majority of time.
Of course, you can't ever have too many rifles in my mind. My 2 cents

My answer for a new shooter on a budget is the 223ai. Assuming the shooter will reload, of course.

Simple, cheap, and ballistically relevant.

buy up a few thousand 75 or 80 grain amax's. 82 bergers wouldn't be bad either.

Range time and rounds down range trumps all, and the 223ai will allow more of it.


I wish someone would have given me this advice way back in the day.

Use the 30-06 to hunt.

You guys are helping me out a lot and I appreciate all of the suggestions. From what the general consensus is saying, something along the lines of a semi-custom 6.5 creedmore or a 7mm-08 seems to be the most logical. It could be the primary go-to for general hunting (whitetail, hogs, coyotes, etc.) but still get the job done on the range, all with fairly low recoil, although my 30-06 doesn't bother me all that much on recoil. I will pick some good optics once I get this thing started. Like I said before, it'll be a slow and steady build over time or it'll be a little while before I can get someone to just build it for me and do it all at once. The boss lady has a strong foot, but I wouldn't give her up for anything.

So 6.5 cm vs. 7-08? Pros/cons of either? I've noticed some have talked about barrel life. With knowing I want to suppress (which will shorten barrel life I've been told due to extra pressures) which would outlive the other? What are your thoughts on a 7mm short mag?

There's no telling how many rounds have been through my 06, but its not shot out or anything. So with the 6.5cm and 7-08 in mind now, I'll just add another larger caliber to the stable afterwards, and make the 30-06 the backup elk gun. I've got decent optics on my 06 currently and a 3 shot group in a quarter at 100. This was when sighting in the new scope with some factory Remington core lokt 165gr. Not too shabby with factory rounds.

7-08 delivers a tad more energy.

6.5 Creedmoor has a tad less wind drift. I have one of each.

I can't get on board with a .223 A.I. for a man on a budget. Get a big boy rifle. Get a .223 A.I. when you need a prairie dog/ varmint/ trainer rifle for positional shooting.

I have (or should I say I got my wife) a 22-250 for this. She even shot a pig with it last year, but I've been having issues with what it will stabilize on factory ammo in a decent grain bullet.

No flies on either of those. Tough choice, both are good rounds. Have a couple 7mm-08s and been shooting one since 1982 so a little partial to that caliber since it has always done what I have ask of it. The Creedmoor seems to be the darling of this forum these days and is a good cartridge with a little less recoil than the 7mm-08 when using the better long range bullets for each. Tough call on which one. If you thought you might want to use it on bigger game like Elk would go 7mm-08 if not probably the 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5X47 Lapua.

600 75 grain amax bullets for a hundred dollar bill.

around 25-27 grains of powder

cheap brass.

next to zero recoil.

affords lots of practice. Steel doesn't care about energy.

8.3 mils to 1k. Sounds familiar does it not? granted wind is trickier, but this is all about learning.

Shooting about 4-5k of 223ai on a decent range, and I guarantee you will become more proficient.

22-250 usually have terrible twists for shooting 75+ grain bullets. No thanks.

You will probably go through 3 or more 22-250 barrels before shooting out a 223ai. No thanks.

I tell people all the time. Whatever caliber you are shooting, learn to dominate 800 yards and in.

223ai is perfect for this. If you can manage a 80-90 percent hit ratio on .75 moa UKD style targets inside 800 yards, you have mastered the prone position. Time to move on to barricades, kneeling, standing, etc, etc.

Until then, keep practicing.

Also has no recoil to learn how to manage.

I'll repeat myself. A GUY ON A BUDGET should skip it. Get a rifle that'll nearly do it all, and that would be something .308 down to .243

Exactly. It'll shoot 55 grainers all day long, doesn't matter what brand of factory ammo it is. I found some Federal Premium BTSP in a 60gr and it sprays it all over the target. The cheap Winchester Polimer Tip Rapid Expansion in a 64gr though shoots amazing though. May just have to try some pigs on those to see how they work out.
I grew up on a 22-250 as a kid, so i'm very familiar with its capabilities. My grandfather used to load some 63gr bullets, but not sure what actual bullets he loaded.

8.3 Mils to 1k.

Who gives a chit about eleavation? No one has fun bracketing a target with wind misses, and that's exactly what you'll get pushing a 75 A-max outside 600.

I push that same bullet out of a .22-250 well above .223 A.I. speed.

1:14" twist 45 gr to 55 gr bullets at lightening speed.

They have tiny BC and will be subsonic 500-600 yards out Been there, done that. Would rather have an old slow .308 to take long shots.

I will admit this. Most people interested in long range shooting don't stick with it. It's a couple times to the 1k line, a few hits, and they have accomplished there goal. In this case, a 223ai isn't the best caliber. Almost any off the shelf heavy barrel rifle will accomplish that goal.

If however, if they want to become proficient. I will take more range time with cheap ammo every time. We will have to agree to disagree.


I learned this lesson several years ago when I had a great match with my 6.5, but still lost to a plain jane 223 shooting 82 bergers. At the end of the day, jpipes still had more hits and more points than me. Pipes was the only guy in the field shooting 224 bullets. Lots of 6mm, 6.5, and 7mm to be found out there that day, including mine.

I just enjoy shooting. Not looking to compete, at least not that i'm planning on. I have 2 1,000 yard ranges within about an hour away. Like above, something I can shoot well with and kill something with, depending on my location at the range or in the stand.

I never said the 223ai better than a 6.5 creedmoor, x47, 7mm-08, 6creed, etc, etc, etc. That would just be silly.

I said the 223ai is cheap to load, and has enough ballistics for the job.

FWIW the real inexpensive 7-08 ( especially when bought from SPS in blems) Nosler BTip 120gr 284's are built a little heavier in the jacket- uses the 140gr BT jacket- and penetrates about like a NAB or NPT and can be run a little faster than my Hornady #9 shows for their 6.5 120-123gr CM loads. In short action 6.5's though I favor a 260 for no other reason than multiple sources for brass. 260 brass can be formed hassle free off of 243 & 7-08 brass too.

Nozler #7 in a 7-08 out of a 26" 9 twist barrel shows 'em at high 3100/low 3200's @ 5-8% overfill %'s and avg about 3K fps in 100% fills of around 43-48 gr's in several powders. I'd think the 9 twist barrel would not be as a good an 8 twist...Ask FJG, Chad, Dee or some other folks with hands on history about this though.

Either caliber will work I'm sure on Texas sized critters. I just hate being dependent on a single source for any component though after the last couple years of shortages.
Ron

Yeah Pipes has put in the time and done very well with the 223 A.I.

I've also put more points on the board repeatedly because I was running a 6.5 mn 140 gr A-max at 2800 MV

Me too

Most any factory 7mm08 will have the twist needed to run the 168 and lower bullets which are a perfect ratio of case/bullet weight. As mentioned above there is not much of a difference in 7mm08 and the Creedmoor. The 7mm is a even with the Creedmoor in drift or better unless the 6.5 is running a long barrel and 140 hybrids. The downside is a touch more recoil.

I just faced the 6.5 or 7-08 question. I chose 7-08. Simply because I will hunt with it often. It carries slightly more energy down range. Really not enough to count but I've been very impressed with my other 7-08s ability.

6.5 Grendel will get you to 1000 yards with less powder consumption and recoil than all but the 223AI mentioned in this thread. Trajectory to 1k is less than a mill from the 308 even with loads burning 28.5 grains of powder.

Long case and barrel life are added benefits of this little round.

M14 (M1A) worked for me 44 years ago, ruined a few peoples days with it at long range.

surprised allot of people are saying the 6.5 creed can't take down an elk. an elk is not some armored creature with unicorn powers and a 6.5 creed will drop it in its tracks. everyone get's all spun around the axles about what cartridge can do what and the answer is they can all do a variety of things depending on how they are used. a 6.5 creed will drop an elk without issue, so will a 6.5x47, a 7-08 and an endless list of other items.

ford/chevy arguments are almost as useless as caliber arguments..... or discussions, whatever you call them.