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#5688958 - 04/07/15 05:11 PM How to respond if you come away with nothing?
Stickman11b Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/04/15
Posts: 84
Loc: Texas
When it comes down to hunting prices. If you pay over let's say 500$ or more. I've seen hunts for as high as 18,000$. I'll never understand why people pay that much but hopefully one day I will as I continue to fall in love with hunting.

How Do you respond when you didn't harvest the deer or animal you wanted? Is it rude to ask for you money back? should you only ask for half or is there a hidden moral law kinda like "hey we didn't get what you wanted so here is a third of your money back." I realize that land owner/leasers have family's and have to make a living totally understand. I was just curious if there is a hunters etiquette to say the least on both sides of the fence. If you have ever been a situation like this please give me your story and thoughts on the matter. I'd like to hear from both sides if possible(seller/buyer. If you look for specifics when your booking hunt and you find out it's not what you thought. Is it rude to back out and ask for you money back? I've seen that on here where people have bad gut feelings when they appear at a ranch or over hear a conversation that alerted them and they should of left but they didn't. Is that because it is rude?
_________________________
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

-ERNEST HEMINGWAY

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#5689016 - 04/07/15 05:58 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
don k Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 9284
Loc: Bandera, Tx
First off do your homework before you lay out any money. It is no ones fault. It may be the hunter for a number of reasons. It may be the property for a number of reasons. You paid to play so you are the one holding the empty bag. No one to blame except the one who laid out the money.
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http://www.ibexgoats.com/home.html

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#5689032 - 04/07/15 06:16 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
It is hunting and not killing. You book a hunt with the best guide/outfitter/ranch that is out there, but no one can make the animals move when they want them to. I do my homework before I book a hunt. I ask the questions I need to ask and if I get the answers I am looking for then I book a hunt. I also ask for references and call everyone they give me. I do not like "guaranteed" hunts.
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#5689060 - 04/07/15 06:40 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: stxranchman]
Stickman11b Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/04/15
Posts: 84
Loc: Texas
Now that is an awesome tip! I'll carry that one with me.. That's what I probably should have posted. Tips before you book a hunt. I never thought to call references. Thanks guys, keep'em coming! I also get the do your homework part. I am just looking for further knowledge to put in my tool box.


Edited by Stickman11b (04/07/15 06:40 PM)
_________________________
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

-ERNEST HEMINGWAY

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#5689089 - 04/07/15 06:58 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: stxranchman]
SniperRAB Online   content
GRAMPS!!!

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 21132
Loc: Nurturing Biosphere Mothership
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
It is hunting and not killing. You book a hunt with the best guide/outfitter/ranch that is out there, but no one can make the animals move when they want them to. I do my homework before I book a hunt. I ask the questions I need to ask and if I get the answers I am looking for then I book a hunt. I also ask for references and call everyone they give me. I do not like "guaranteed" hunts.



I have several spoiled by bad weather and bad conditions an walked away empty handed...That's why its called Hunting, I always made the best of it and have never made a guide or Rancher fell bad. In my experience they have invited me back and always been fair, I always look at it as they have to make a living also. I always put a ton of research or had first hand experience of the operation. It always works out at the end up
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#5689107 - 04/07/15 07:14 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: SniperRAB]
Stickman11b Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/04/15
Posts: 84
Loc: Texas
That is also how I look at it to. I know they have families as well. I think the invite part is a good example of an option if you don't get anything. I also think that is why a lot of guides/outfitters say "I'll include a free hog." That part really scares me because it makes me think there is a slim to zero chance I'll see what I am wanting to really harvest.
_________________________
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

-ERNEST HEMINGWAY

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#5689111 - 04/07/15 07:23 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
janie Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16059
Loc: Collin County TX
I would never ask for any money back. You always hope for a harvest, but even under the most ideal of condition's, nothing is guaranteed, and if someone told me it was, I'd probably tell them they were nuts.

We hunted Circle T Ranch a couple of years ago. (It's since been sold) Hog's were thick as was the terrain. Our guide worked his butt off, and did everything he could. No one in our group was able to get a clear/clean shot.

We called it quit's at midnight. 2 other's stayed out til 4 a.m. and neither succeeded.

Disappointed? A little bit, but that goes with the territory. Food on the table is important, but so is time outdoor's doing what we love.

I'm happy to pay either way. We tipped our guide generously the next morning over breakfast. The man busted his backside, but sometimes animal's are alot smarter then we give them credit.
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He is your friend defender your dog. Be worthy of such devotion

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#5689120 - 04/07/15 07:33 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
cameron00 Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 8202
Loc: Texas
There are various arrangements possible.

You might pay $x dollars for the accommodations and then a success fee.

You might pay the entire guide fee up front.

You might pick the exact buck you want ahead of time or you might have no idea what you'll ever see.

The key is to have a clear understanding between both parties ahead of time.

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#5689146 - 04/07/15 07:50 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
Just Nate Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 4619
Loc: Austin, TX
I spent a ton of money hunting elephant and worked my butt off but never saw a shootable bull. The PH is now one of my best friends, I send packages to the skinner, tracker &, cook and, I had more fun on that hunt than any other. Hunting is about relationship and friendship...

That is why I hunt!!!

Relationships and Friendships, you can take those to your grave. You cannot take money...

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#5689416 - 04/07/15 09:54 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: stxranchman]
TXHOGSLAYER Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 12020
Loc: Katy, TX
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
It is hunting and not killing. You book a hunt with the best guide/outfitter/ranch that is out there, but no one can make the animals move when they want them to.


According to some, you can if it is HF. bolt
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
I need some meat frown

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#5689460 - 04/07/15 10:16 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: TXHOGSLAYER]
dawaba Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
Nowadays better than half of my hunts are unsuccessful. I'm always looking for a big animal, and I firmly believe that you'll never have big trophies on your wall if you're willing to settle for an average trophy. So, I often come home empty handed. Besides, I hunt for the experience, and in taking up the pursuit, I sometimes find a trophy, but I never fail to find myself. For me, that is the essence of the reason I hunt.

Regarding the OP's point, if I'm in good game country and see some animals, even if I don't shoot, I consider it a success. The land owner or outfitter has no obligation to refund any money, although sometimes they will offer a discount on a future hunt. Of course, they can't control the weather, which is always a wild card.

As long as you check references and do your homework, you can avoid most of the bad apples out there.
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#5689489 - 04/07/15 10:29 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
txshntr Online   content
T-Rex Arms

Registered: 09/24/10
Posts: 33685
Loc: Mansfield, Texas
I agree with most the others, I wouldn't hold the rancher or guide responsible if I didn't harvest an animal. Same goes with a lease, it is up to you to do your research, scouting, etc. Most the time, hunting is about the adventure more so than the grand finale.

With that said, there are plenty of people out there that misrepresent what they have to offer and the opportunities. There was a ranch adjacent to the place that I hunt that was day leasing and advertising deer from 150-165", there wasn't much of a chance of that happening on that place. There are also plenty of stories that pop up on here about places to avoid...but most of that can be avoided with a little research.
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#5689568 - 04/07/15 11:50 PM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
nak Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 783
Loc: DFW
For leases, the majority of the burden lies in doing the proper due diligence before signing the lease.

Individual hunts are a different matter:
For migratory birds, deer, trophy hogs, predators, or any bigger game (that is fair chase), you cannot fault a land owner/guide unless something is really F'ed up. You also cannot fault them for weather. You may find some that will offer a price break on a repeat visit, but that would not be expected unless it was in the terms up front.

Upland birds, P'dogs, and the like are a little different. You are paying to be put on resident game. If the land owner/guide puts you on a shot out P'dog town, or in fields where trained dogs cannot find birds under favorable scenting conditions, then I believe there is a different expectation.
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#5689593 - 04/08/15 12:28 AM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
Stickman11b Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 04/04/15
Posts: 84
Loc: Texas
Alright. I can take all that with a grain of salt. You could compare it to fishing. I have spent hundreds dollars on fishing gear and came away with nothing. When you talk about the pursuit of what your really looking for. I guess I am seeking a thrill. The quite, the cold, any and everything else that makes it worth while to "suck" while your waiting for your opportunity. I don't have a hunting partner or a mentor. I have someone I ask questions to and you all lol.. My most major disappointments are just myself and the way I hunt. Again I'll do my research but I just never knew there was so much to your prey. Which makes it all the more challenging but just as some of you said above it is an experience. I am glad I made the mistake of the 200$ hunt I had and not something more. I didn't expect the owner to tell me not to shower or to get deer pee or scent cover. lol I didn't even know they sold that stuff. Again it isn't his job to tell me but I just felt like he could tell me everything else that seemed important. Get there 4 hours before. Buy more deer corn. He knew I was shooting with a rifle but yet he still put me at a feeder that was 15-20 yards. I am not the one to complain but man I mean I was up there for 2 weeks.. 2 weeks! I can't say I was taken advantage of because he gave me quite awhile. I just never would of thought that maybe it was me the whole time.
_________________________
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

-ERNEST HEMINGWAY

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#5689633 - 04/08/15 05:33 AM Re: How to respond if you come away with nothing? [Re: Stickman11b]
tlk Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 1986
The only time I would request a refund is if the hunt was not as advertised. In other words facilities were not what was represented or a guide was very lazy. But if it is because the game was not there or what was expected then you just learn and move on. Also there are some hunts that you pay a base price and only pay an additional trophy fee if you pull the trigger. I have been on a number of those hunts and that is not a bad way to operate IMO.
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You can't fix stupid

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