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#5678649 - 03/31/15 07:50 PM Odds of getting drawn?
TTT Ranch Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 564
Loc: Mansfield
My buddy and I put in to be drawn for CO tags. He put in for a mule deer and I put in for a cow elk. Without any points, what are the odds (I realize it's a guess) that we get drawn? 3rd rifle season. Unit 53.


Edited by David Taylor Construction (03/31/15 07:51 PM)

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#5678758 - 03/31/15 08:48 PM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
10ring Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 840
Loc: Pilot Point, TX
Very slim chance "but always a chance" the deer tag will be close to 0% chance of getting drawn the cow tag, better odds for sure. A lot of units in Colorado are taking 7+ preference points to draw a deer as a non-resident, not sure about 53. Good luck though!

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#5678772 - 03/31/15 08:56 PM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41125
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: David Taylor Construction
My buddy and I put in to be drawn for CO tags. He put in for a mule deer and I put in for a cow elk. Without any points, what are the odds (I realize it's a guess) that we get drawn? 3rd rifle season. Unit 53.


Look at the bright side if you don't draw still lots of units of OTC elk

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#5679125 - 04/01/15 06:43 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
Flags Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/20/14
Posts: 182
Loc: Athens, TX
CO publishes what is called hunting recaps for every unit. They show exactly how many points it takes to draw any hunt in any unit in the state. These are found under the big game tag in the hunting info on their website.

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#5679131 - 04/01/15 06:51 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: BOBO the Clown]
Western Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23592
Loc: Wise County Texas
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: David Taylor Construction
My buddy and I put in to be drawn for CO tags. He put in for a mule deer and I put in for a cow elk. Without any points, what are the odds (I realize it's a guess) that we get drawn? 3rd rifle season. Unit 53.


Look at the bright side if you don't draw still lots of units of OTC elk


That is what I would plan for, just say'n. I have 2 buddies up to 7 PP each(Deer), for a "not so coveted" area. Prime areas like U61, I have talked with folks that have over 10PP, also for deer.

Elk seems much easier, for me and I would bet the cow tag will be much easier (unit dependent). One of you may have to do as BOBO mentioned and buy an OTC bull tag to hunt together.

I don't know much about u53 except it has some really rough terrain.
_________________________
Friends don't let Friends drink and post.......

The first 5 day's after the weekend, are the hardest....

Dennis


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#5679269 - 04/01/15 08:34 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: Western]
dawaba Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
I had 17 points for deer and 14 for elk and pronghorn in Colorado this year. After much study and consternation, I finally applied for a deer unit that has several private ranches known for big bucks. For elk, nothing really rang my chimes, so I just put in for "points only". Same with antelope.

I also had 14 "weighted" points for moose, bighorn, and goat. I applied into good units for all three, but I'm not holding my breath as to the outcome.
_________________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#5679420 - 04/01/15 09:54 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
WileyCoyote Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 4535
Loc: The Dogwood Capital of Texas
Dawaba...correct me if I'm wrong, but in Colorado, and more than a few other Western states too, as I understand it...the "weighted" draw means that with ABC# of PP's ...everyone that applies for a particular Unit with more PP's than you have, will get drawn before you can be drawn. Correct?

So, with your 14 PP's for Elk in Colorado, and you put in for Unit XYZ, anyone with 15 or more PP's will get drawn in decending order on App's FOR THAT UNIT before you will...Right?

One other ?? ...how does the Res x Non Res PP thing work? I know that lots of Western states have severely resticted #'s of Non Res tags in comparison to the Res Tags....and some Units or Game Animals have no tag at all for Non Res Hunters...Shiras Moose comes to mind in Wyoming or Montana as I recall, where the Res Tags are restricted to a Once in Lifetime Tag basis... IE ...are your PP's only applied to the much smaller pool of Non Res tags for a given variety of critter regardless of the Unit applied for?

Always has frosted me to no end that my Federal Tax dollars support Federal Lands in other states, and I am treated totally different than a Resident on land I have unwillingly contributed towards the cost of...and I have refused to further support the economy of those states by vacationing or hunting in the Rockies ever since when that was driven home to me one year. I know I know Cut Nose off to spite face...again. Oh Well
Ron
_________________________
Remember Aesops Fables outcome of the "Scorpion & and the Frog's" crossing the river when they get to other side

TooTaToo...We have MET the Enemy...and He is US !!... Pogo

Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it...George Santayana

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#5679552 - 04/01/15 11:35 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: WileyCoyote]
dawaba Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
Every state has a slightly different process, and some are more fair to nonresidents than others.

You are correct that, in Colorado, the applicant with the most points will get the tag. And generally speaking, Colorado allocates around 10% of its available tags to nonresidents, EVEN FOR HUNTS ON FEDERAL LAND. So in my case with 17 points, if there is only one nonresident tag available for my chosen unit and Joe Blow from Ohio with 18 points also applies to the same unit, JB will get the tag and I will lick my wounds. If the unit has 2 nonresident tags available, JB and I both will get the tags, providing we have the most points of all the applicants.

It is commonplace now for western states to allocate 10% or less of their hunting tags to nonresidents. This holds true even though most of the hunting land in most of these states is NF or BLM land, which is owned by all Americans, not just the residents of the state.

Thirty-or-so years ago, a rich hunter from San Antonio named Terk sued the state of New Mexico, claiming that the NM policy at the time discriminated against nonresidents. Terk won, and NM was forced to give out more tags to nonresidents. A few years later, George Taulman of United States Outfitters filed suit in Arizona, claiming that AZ's allocation of 10% of its tags to nonresidents was unfair because much more than 10% of Arizona's public land was Federally owned. Taulman won too, and AZ was forced to allocate 40%(IIRC) of its tags to nonresidents.

This hey-day for nonresidents lasted exactly one year. Harry Reid in the Senate and Morris Udall in the House, bowing to the clamor of their constituents, introduced a bill that would remove all Federal interference from the affairs and decision-making of all state game departments. This sounds good on the surface (after all, shouldn't Texans have the right to make their own rules for wildlife in Texas, and not Washington?), but in fact Congress was passing a law that nullified the Terk and Taulman decisions.

I wrote to my Congressmen at the time: Hutchinson, Cornyn, and Hensarling, asking that they vote against the Reid-Udall bill. Two of the three wrote back that they supported the bill, since they were strong proponents of states' rights (Cornyn didn't reply, although he voted in favor of the bill like the others).

So....I guess we nonresidents should feel thankful that we still can get (up to) 10% of the tags. After Reid-Udall, I suppose any state could deny nonresidents ANY tags whatsoever. But I guess Coloradans like to see that Texas money flowing into their state, so they reluctantly throw us a bone.
_________________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#5679556 - 04/01/15 11:36 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
Western Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23592
Loc: Wise County Texas
Wiley, you will spite yourself over that? You may have contributed enough to pay for 1 square yard. The only thing you are out if not drawn is big game hunting, you still have year round access for fishing, small game and many other uses. Pretty cheap for a gazillion acre public lease. Your Tax dollars go to dumber things than protection of public lands for sure.

_________________________
Friends don't let Friends drink and post.......

The first 5 day's after the weekend, are the hardest....

Dennis


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#5679604 - 04/01/15 11:59 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
passthru Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: Saginaw, Tx
What I don't like is I don't have the years to wait on preference points. I know the only elk I will ever get to hunt again would be as an exotic here in Texas. It's sad but the facts are there are more hunters than land and animals available. And we keep reproducing and developing the land. Then the dumb arses put the wolves out there and decimate herds to boot. Sad state of affairs in our western states.
_________________________
Hunt hard, rest when you're dead.
NRA Life Member
southwestdocks@gmail.com
http://www.threefingersbowhunting.com/

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#5679611 - 04/01/15 12:03 PM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: dawaba]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41125
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: dawaba
I had 17 points for deer and 14 for elk and pronghorn in Colorado this year. After much study and consternation, I finally applied for a deer unit that has several private ranches known for big bucks. For elk, nothing really rang my chimes, so I just put in for "points only". Same with antelope.

I also had 14 "weighted" points for moose, bighorn, and goat. I applied into good units for all three, but I'm not holding my breath as to the outcome.


Watch snow fall and early spring rain fall numbers on the antelope. You can tell real quick when to use those points.

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#5680627 - 04/01/15 11:16 PM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: Western]
WileyCoyote Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 4535
Loc: The Dogwood Capital of Texas
Dennis ...It is pretty cheap for a gazillion acres, if you could ever get drawn and actually hunt on it... Nope I've trvelled most of the Country, except for New England and the Pacific Northwest and don't feel the need to contribute to a States economy that discriminates against me when they spend MY Federal Tax dollars. They can do whatever they want to do IMO on their States Lands, but on Federal Land I have another opinion.

I'd really like to see TP&W do what the TxDept Insurance does with Non Res Insurance Licenses. If a State charges $100 and requires stuff for a Texas Resident to have Non Res Ins License in that State, then Texas mirrors that States requirements for their Non Res Agent to get a Texas License. Some States charge a bunch and make you jump thru lotsa hoops & some States, like ummm South Carolina charge Zero, and Texas returns the courtesy. Whats fair for the Goose is fair for the Gander. BTDThis when I was still in the Aflac bidnizz and was beginning to specialize in working with multi location corporations, usually chain retailers with multiple warehouse support systems, before Aflac developed a Multi State Team at Corporate. A buddy in Phoenix had 35-40 States License's working with nothing but Corporate HQ's. Most efficient use of his time was his favorite phrase.
Ron
_________________________
Remember Aesops Fables outcome of the "Scorpion & and the Frog's" crossing the river when they get to other side

TooTaToo...We have MET the Enemy...and He is US !!... Pogo

Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it...George Santayana

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#5681263 - 04/02/15 12:42 PM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: TTT Ranch]
Western Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 23592
Loc: Wise County Texas
Makes sense on the insurance part.

As far as Federal land and other states, they probably enjoy being financed by the fed. They call dibs on the game that utilize the FL, so......Same with BLM and some state land tracts. The part I don't like about it, is when they allow a rancher, or other LO, to control by lease, or access either state lands or some BLM. I know of several spots of BLM that are virtually land locked and know for certain Colorado will lease the state school lands.

BTW, just put in for my Colorado Elk tag, I have always got a draw tag with 1 PP in the area I hunt, fingers crossed. I will admit, it was easier when I lived on the Western Slope (and CHEAPER!)
_________________________
Friends don't let Friends drink and post.......

The first 5 day's after the weekend, are the hardest....

Dennis


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#5683944 - 04/04/15 08:49 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: dawaba]
Flags Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 11/20/14
Posts: 182
Loc: Athens, TX
Originally Posted By: dawaba

Thirty-or-so years ago, a rich hunter from San Antonio named Terk sued the state of New Mexico, claiming that the NM policy at the time discriminated against nonresidents. Terk won, and NM was forced to give out more tags to nonresidents. A few years later, George Taulman of United States Outfitters filed suit in Arizona, claiming that AZ's allocation of 10% of its tags to nonresidents was unfair because much more than 10% of Arizona's public land was Federally owned. Taulman won too, and AZ was forced to allocate 40%(IIRC) of its tags to nonresidents.


Not quite. Both of those cases were overturned in the courts. You didn't happen to mention that little fact. The SCOTUS has ruled that the game in all the states belongs to the people of those individual states and those individual states can manage the game and the hunting of the game in the manner they see fit. This matter has been settled. Bottom line, you as a taxpayer can use federal land all you want. But the game that resides within the boundaries of the individual states, belongs to the states. And it is the states that have the right to issue tags. This is as it should be. Do you really want to have some idiot in NJ telling TX how to sell hunting licenses?

As to the Harry Reid action, and let me say right now that I detest the man, what he did was put it to the courts to end this type of lawsuit since rich hunters had been going after the states one by one. Suits had been filed in NM, AZ, WY, CO and MT. This made it a national topic and Reid's bill put it to the national level to end the lawsuits. I've personally hunted over 10 states and I have no problem following the laws of the individual states and paying what they charge for tags. Like all things, if you want to play, you have to pay.

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#5683981 - 04/04/15 09:17 AM Re: Odds of getting drawn? [Re: Flags]
dawaba Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
Thanks for the clarification and the fine tuning of my general statement from memory, Flags. All of us agree that the game departments of the states know best how to mind their own wildlife. And we all agree that a Federal court in San Francisco or New Orleans, or even the SCOTUS, has no business making decisions on wildlife management.

BUT....the issue here is whether a western state with, say, 60% of its land federally owned by ALL U.S. citizens, can ethically limit to nonresidents the hunting of its game animals to "no more than 10%" of available tags. Taking Montana as an example, human nature will reveal that Montana residents want 100% of the tags for themselves, whereas nonresidents would want to see the percentage of tags available to everyone to be somewhere near the percentage of federal land in Montana, not just "up to 10%". Nonresidents also find it unfair that their cost for an out-of-state hunting license is often 20 times the fee for the same resident license.

Reid-Udall has made this whole debate moot now, and to the nonresidents' misfortune. Perhaps the Texas P&WD should play the same hardball with its own license fees and nonresident tags.
_________________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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