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#5657012 - 03/18/15 02:34 PM S&B reticle recommendation
Theringworm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 325
Need help deciding on a reticle. S&B PMII/LP/MT/LT 3-20x50 scope but which reticle: Klein, P4L, P4L fine, or H2CMR. I will mainly use this rifle for hunting out to further distances but also want to get into some long range shooting 500-1,000yds. Anyone with any experience behind these?

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#5657076 - 03/18/15 03:19 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6491
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Of those you listed, I'd personally go P4L Fine or Klein.

Reticles
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#5657116 - 03/18/15 03:42 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
P4L fein is what I would get.

Im my experience hashes are better than dots or rings, and a thick reticle is not helpful.
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#5657123 - 03/18/15 03:45 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: FiremanJG]
Theringworm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 325
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
P4L fein is what I would get.

Im my experience hashes are better than dots or rings, and a thick reticle is not helpful.


I totally agree about the rings. I can't see how they would be helpful.

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#5657127 - 03/18/15 03:46 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
The p4 reticles don't have 1/2 mil marks in between 0 and 1 mil. That sucks.

The msr reticle is the better choice.

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#5657167 - 03/18/15 04:01 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
P4L fein is what I would get.

Im my experience hashes are better than dots or rings, and a thick reticle is not helpful.


I totally agree about the rings. I can't see how they would be helpful.


Fast to find, is the only good reason.

Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
The p4 reticles don't have 1/2 mil marks in between 0 and 1 mil. That sucks.



The msr reticle is the better choice.


That does suck. Does the gap from red to black happen at the .5 Mil mark? I don't see an "msr" reticle.
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#5657180 - 03/18/15 04:08 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: FiremanJG]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG

Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
The p4 reticles don't have 1/2 mil marks in between 0 and 1 mil. That sucks.



The msr reticle is the better choice.


That does suck. Does the gap from red to black happen at the .5 Mil mark? I don't see an "msr" reticle.


the p4f gap starts at .7 mils, I think.

The msr reticle is very similar but has the .5 mil mark, and a few other differences.
http://www.finnaccuracy.com/msr.html
MSR is available in S&B, Kahles, and Steiner scopes.

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#5657195 - 03/18/15 04:15 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
Theringworm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 325
From what I read, the MSR reticle was available in the "Precision" line of scopes. I am not certain, but I do not think S&B makes this reticle anymore but has gone to something else.

This is what I found regarding the P4. You can get it in either mil based or MOA based and does have 1/2 mil marks:

P4L Fine Reticle (aka P4L Fein) – The Schmidt and Bender P4L Fine reticle is a popular mil-based reticle with 0.5 mil subtensions. It provides a massive 27 mils of elevation marked below the point of aim, and 5 mils of marks for wind hold-offs in each direction. It features a floating crosshair, and has 0.2 mil subtensions just inside the posts for more precise range estimation. The 3 thick posts at the 9, 12, and 3 o’clock positions help with quick target acquisition at lower magnifications, even in low light. The fine 0.03 mil line thickness on this reticle allows precise aiming without obscuring the target. It also offers pre-calculated reference marks for instant range estimation, with an uncluttered design on the top half of the reticle for observation/spotting.

P4L Fine MOA Reticle (aka P4L Fein MOA) – Just like the P4L Fine reticle, but with MOA units. It features 1 MOA subtensions, with 0.4 MOA subtenions near the posts for more precise range estimation. Line thickness and other features are similar to the P4L Fine reticle described above.

The MSR reticle is only available in the "Precision" line.

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#5657213 - 03/18/15 04:25 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
The P4f reticle is based on 1/2 and whole mil marks, except for the center crosshair. Which is why it sucks.
See this link. It has better pictures and will help. Seems to be somewhere between a .7 and .8 mil line.
http://forum.snipershide.info/showthread.php?t=67182

S&B 3-20 MSR in stock
http://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-pmii-3-20x50-l-p-msr-mrad-locking-mtc-cw.aspx

Be warned though, 3,759.00 only buys you a two year warranty.

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#5657250 - 03/18/15 04:43 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
Theringworm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 325
I am following you now. Good info. Based on that, does that change your decision on the PF4? It's either the Klein or H2CMR if so. I don't care for th other 3 options.

I am aware of the warranty duration. 10 yr guarantee for defects or faulty craftmanship. If I break it, I expect to pay for it. I think that is reasonable.

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#5657287 - 03/18/15 05:03 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/service/warranty.html

10 year only applies to the klassik, zenith, and hungarian models
2 years for everything else, pmII included.

Just a few years ago, they had a 30 year warranty on all products sold.

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#5657293 - 03/18/15 05:05 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw
I would take the Klein over the h2cmr, but only because all my other scopes are broken down to whole and half mils. The H2CMR is broken down to .2 mils. Which is great, but I like my reticles to mirror eachother.

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#5657332 - 03/18/15 05:42 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
Theringworm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 325
Good info 6.5x47Lapua. I guess when it comes to mil-spec gear, warranties aren't that great and for good reason I imagine. Nightforce is no different except it has limited life time for everything except for their mil-spec. I am certain my gear won't take anywhere near the beating the military guys stuff does. Definitely food for though.

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#5657341 - 03/18/15 05:47 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/13/14
Posts: 518
Loc: dfw

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#5657401 - 03/18/15 06:28 PM Re: S&B reticle recommendation [Re: Theringworm]
Theringworm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 325
Man, you have some good info. Thanks for sharing. Interesting read on the warranties. Having worked in the manufacturing/retail industry I do agree 100% regarding the gentleman from Leica who suggested that profit margins are no where near the same and can likely be the cause of differences in warranty descriptions/durations. I won't say that is 100% the case with scopes and acope warranties but it makes since. I do believe you get what you pay for and when those nicer things break down or need service (& they most definitely will) it may cost more to keep them up and running.

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