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Ivermectin sources? #5650812 03/14/15 11:06 AM
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aerangis Offline OP
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Any sources for bulk ivermectin in N Texas?

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5650826 03/14/15 11:27 AM
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Any Tractor Supply


Bobby Barnett

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5650874 03/14/15 01:02 PM
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bill oxner Offline
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Yep, they even have a generic one which is a few dollars less.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5650898 03/14/15 01:15 PM
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Or most feed stores, pretty common at most farm supplies.


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5651110 03/14/15 04:56 PM
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A little bit goes a long way

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5651938 03/15/15 02:13 PM
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one syringe of paste to treat a 1200lb horse is usually $5.00-7.00. One tube last me a year if i only have one dog cause the dosages are in 100lb increments. So squeeze out one click which is for 100lbs and only give half (50lb dog). I waste half of the medicine but still a great deal.


Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5651945 03/15/15 02:26 PM
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I use the liquid. It cost around $35 and will last three years.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: bill oxner] #5653024 03/16/15 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I use the liquid. It cost around $35 and will last three years.
This up


Bobby Barnett

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5653532 03/16/15 05:35 PM
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Any tips on dosage?

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5653549 03/16/15 05:50 PM
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I put .3 cc on a slice of buttered bread and give it to my 40 pound female pointer once a month.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5653559 03/16/15 05:58 PM
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Thanks Bill, which formulation are you using, the one at Tractor Supply?

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5653570 03/16/15 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: aerangis
Thanks Bill, which formulation are you using, the one at Tractor Supply?


Yes, the liquid.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5653796 03/16/15 08:30 PM
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Bill, are you using Ivomec brand or an off brand?

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: DuckedUp] #5653856 03/16/15 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: DuckedUp
Bill, are you using Ivomec brand or an off brand?


I finished up my bottle of the generic and went back to get another. they were out of stock so I got the Ivomec.

Last edited by bill oxner; 03/16/15 09:14 PM.

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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: bill oxner] #5654500 03/17/15 05:39 AM
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You first timers need to be sure you are buying injectable ivermectin for cattle. Brand name is of no concern. I have used stuff I buy in Mexico for years with no ill effects. And I wouldn't worry so much about the dosage. just make sure you are using approximately 1/10 cc per 10 lbs of dog per month, or 1/2 cc per 50 lb dog per month(DO NOT give to any of the shepherd breeds or collies.)That is way more than you need to prevent heartworms, but the correct dosage to rid them of other parasites as well. Plus, it is a down right convenient dosage. Also, remember that altho it is injectable in cattle, you are giving it orally. So, draw it into a syringe, and remove the needle if you are going to squirt it in their mouth directly. I squirt it on their food.

Last edited by Pointer; 03/17/15 08:46 PM.
Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: Pointer] #5654576 03/17/15 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: Pointer
You first timers need to be sure you are buying injectable ivermectin for cattle. Brand name is of no concern. I have used stuff I buy in Mexico for years with no ill effects. And I wouldn't worry so much about the dosage. just make sure you are using approximately 1/10 cc per 10 lbs of dog per month(DO NOT give to any of the shepherd breeds or collies.)That is way more than you need to kill heartworms, but the correct dosage to rid them of other parasites as well. Plus, it is a down right convenient dosage. Also, remember that altho it is injectable in cattle, you are giving it orally. So, draw it into a syringe, and remove the needle if you are going to squirt it in their mouth directly. I squirt it on their food.


Good nuts and bolts advice for the DIY crowd.

Half that dosage will prevent HW infection. The jury is still out regarding your dosage's ability to reliably KILL adult heartworms. Immidicide is still the only treatment that will do that with surety. And you don't have to go to Mexico to buy it....as other posters have opined.

And remember, no medication is 100% effective. An annual HW test is always a good policy to save you grief later on. Even I get this done on my dogs.

Last, if you choose the DIY route, you're almost certainly on your own. Conversely, if you opt to use the commercially labeled HW preventions and a failure occurs, the manufacturer of the preventative is very likely to help cover the HW treatment. In my career, a prevention failure happened maybe a half-dozen times, and in each case, I was able to get the manufacturer to cover the cost for treatment, and the dog owner paid nothing.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5654578 03/17/15 11:46 AM
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Seems like more people are using the injectable over the paste. Is this because dosage is easier to measure accurately?


Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: magspa] #5654849 03/17/15 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: magspa
Seems like more people are using the injectable over the paste. Is this because dosage is easier to measure accurately?


I use the Zymecterin Gold paste once a quarter.It is in a measurable plunger. I put 1 cc on a wooden popcicle stick and then swab the back of their tongue with that. I have been heartworm and parasite free for years. If your dog developes a "hotspot", this will help cure the area as well as any medicine I have ever used.

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5655306 03/17/15 09:14 PM
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This is the instructions that I use for my dogs. I got the liquid from tractor supply.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/ivomec.html

I mix the ivermectin in very small amounts with Propylene glycol which can be found on Amazon. I usually mix up a 30:1 batch using .1cc of ivermectin and 3cc of propylene glycol. This will last me for 3-4 months with 2 dogs around 25lbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Depot-PR...ropylene+glycol

I also use Pyrantel Pamoate to mimic what is in heart guard.

http://www.amazon.com/Pyrantel-Pamoate-S...ywords=pyrontel

Last edited by KillzoneFlashlights; 03/17/15 09:25 PM.

Thanks,
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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: KillzoneFlashlights] #5655629 03/18/15 12:44 AM
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The reason I posted to not worry all that much about dosage is, a couple of times throughout his life, my 11+ yr old PeeWee (E. pointer) had an apparent outbreak of red mange. I dosed him with one cc or ml of ivermectin PER DAY for more than a year at a time.

Now, am I recommending such treatment? No. Consult your vet. But, it does illustrate the safety in the recommended dosage of ivermectin for heartworm prevention. You probably aren't going to kill your bird dog with .5 cc per month.

PeeWee at more than eleven, is just as ornery as ever!

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: magspa] #5655757 03/18/15 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: magspa
Seems like more people are using the injectable over the paste. Is this because dosage is easier to measure accurately?


The answer is yes. When you're measuring such a small dose you want to be accurate.

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5656342 03/18/15 02:09 PM
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Interesting read here, wonder what Dawaba's thoughts are relative to this webpage, relative to the dosage?

http://www.tylerthewonderdog.com/tyler-6-6-10.htm

Heartworm Prevention for Dummies
Ivormectin for heartworm prevention | Other meds | Diluting Ivomec

Years of misinformation is recorded on the Internet like brain damage regarding the heartworm prevention dose for dogs using inexpensive Ivomec 1%. The conflicting dosage advice proves why forums need moderators to edit such pages. The worst one is chronologically backward (oldest post first). It has 156 replies starting with the oldest post - July, 2005 - that kicked off the very bad idea of giving undiluted Ivomec. No one challenged that bad advice for 2 years!
Someone should delete the misinformation related to giving a dog Ivomec straight from the bottle at a dose of 1/10 ml per 10 pounds of body weight. That is 37 times the correct dose. Apparently the folks at GardenWeb have not yet discovered the value of editing out misinformation. RE: http://forums2.gardenweb.com
Monthly dog dose in Heartgard is 2.72 mcg/lb (6 mcg/kg)
I give my German Shepherd the equivalent ivermectin dose in Heartgard. A 50 pound dog needs a monthly oral dose of 136 mcg (136 millionths of a gram). Thus I can see that there is a wide margin of safety because the LD50 is thousands of times the dose used to prevent heartworm. Ivermectin safety results in its action on the nervous system of an insect, not a mammal.

LD50 = 80mg/kg
WIDE MARGIN OF SAFETY
The ivermectin lethal dose for 50% of animals (LD50) is 13,000 times the dose given to a dog for heartworm prevention. So much for vets who post "warnings" on the Internet.
Vets, vet techs, pet stores, and manufacturers of products such as Heartgard have a vested ($financial) interest in having me pay them $76/year—but I can do this for $0.03/month. That's right - it only costs about 3 cents a month.

This page relates to using ivermectin to prevent heartworms in a 120 lb. German Shepherd. If I didn't pay attention in grade school to learn weights & measures then I'd make sure I got permission from my parents or other grownup persons to help me. READ: How to kill a dog with stupidity + ivermectin.
How simple is it, really? My dog receives 6 mcg/kg each month.
Take 1 ml Ivomec. Dilute in 9 ml of propylene glycol. Give a 100 pound dog 1/3 ml monthly mixed in food (equivalent dose to Heartgard medication). That's it.
The biggest lie is that I might overdose my dog using Ivomec (for cattle) purchased from the feed store. Ivermectin is ivermectin - the Ivomec product is every bit as good as anything a vet uses.

To do this myself, without a vet, I have to be intelligent enough to know micrograms from milligrams and understand what a milliliter is. I can do that!
Micrograms
Dogs require a dose in microgram amounts; not a huge horse or cow dose in milligrams.

To kill my dog, the LD50 = 80 mg/kg
If my dog weighed 50 pounds the lethal dose = 22 kg x 80 mg = 1,818 mg —that is 1.8 grams! That would be more than 3 bottles of Ivomec!

I don't want my dog to get heartworms
There is no reason to put my dog at risk. It only costs pennies a year to prevent this nasty parasite.

I make it a point to administer the preventative dose on the first of every month so I don't forget.

• View this chart comparing medications
Mosquito-borne Dog Heartworm Disease [more...]

Each year thousands of dogs become disabled or die from lung, heart or circulatory problems caused by heartworm disease...caused by a large thread-like round worm, Dirofilaria immitis...because of their location, are commonly called "dog heartworms." ...cases have been reported from dogs native to all 50 states. ...the danger of infection is greatest during the summer when temperatures are favorable for mosquito breeding."

Some breeds have a genetic sensitivity and can have toxic symptoms at only 15 to 200 the therapeutic dose. "...breeds considered at high risk for ivermectin toxicity are collies, Shetland sheepdogs, Australian shepherds, and Old English sheepdogs. Not every individual dog from these breeds is sensitive to ivermectin...these breeds are not at risk when using the low dose heartworm preventive products; only when using the off-label skin parasite protocols."
How I prevent heartworms in Tyler for $0.02/month
Vets are too damn expensive for me
One of the most recommended medications is Revolution by Pfizer Inc. The Pfizer Revolution website is an example of paternalistic marketing that promotes veterinarians.

I can't afford all the costs associated with obtaining the product. Revolution requires a prescription. The vet has to do a lab test first to see if the dog has heartworms; if the test is positive then there is a different course of medication to first kill the worms.

But the best thing to do is make sure Tyler never gets heartworms by administering a monthly dose of ivermectin.


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Dennis

Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: Western] #5657378 03/18/15 11:16 PM
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Well, it is good that Ivermectin has such a wide margin of safety, lest well-intentioned dog owners might be killing their dogs left and right.

The main take-home bullet here is that different parasites require different amounts of ivermectin to be reliably killed. And some parasites, like whipworms, seem to be immune altogether.

We must all understand what we are trying to kill when we say "heartworm control." The heartworm larvae that the mosquito injects into our dogs are easily killed monthly with very low levels of ivermectin. Adult heartworms already residing in the right ventricle of the heart are tough and require much higher doses of ivermectin (in fact, some parasitologists believe that only male adult worms are susceptible and that the female worms are immune to ivermectin for all practical purposes). Almost every vet I know does not approve of using Ivermectin as an adulticide because it is unreliable and controversial; our FDA agrees, for what it's worth.

Other common parasites have variable responses to Ivermectin therapy. Many kennels dose their dogs at a higher rate in order to control hookworms and roundworms, but again, Ivermectin provides uncertain control here. Better is to add pyrantel pamoate (Strongid) to your monthly protocol.

Someone has opined here that Ivermectin also controls fleas and ticks....NOPE, at least according to safe dosing levels. Nor does it prevent mange, sarcoptic nor demodectic.

The previous post recommended diluting the injectable cattle Ivermectin with Propylene glycol. I have always done this very thing for my hunting dog clients. Take one cc of Ivermectin and mix it with 9 cc of PG (that is propylene, not ethylene!) and give your hunting dog .2 to .3 cc orally monthly, depending on its weight. If the dog is a big Lab or Chessie over 100 lbs, I would go with .4 cc monthly. And you MUST give it monthly, because less frequent dosing will cause you to miss the sweet spot when the larvae are susceptible. And some use higher doses in the hope of controlling other parasites. And all of us, even we smart vets, should get an annual HW test just to be sure.

Now my personal opinion.... If you have a large kennel of dogs, I can fully appreciate the wisdom of going with the inexpensive Ivermectin preparations. Caring for many dogs can get expensive real quick, and we must save our hard-earned dollars wherever we can. But if you only have a couple dogs (and aren't living on food stamps), I think it's poor economy to cut corners. Just give the commercial preparations as per your vet's good advice and get on with your life.

Lastly, I must comment on the statement that vets are out to make huge sums of money by selling you these high-dollar pharmaceuticals. Many, many, decades ago, drug sales constituted a significant percentage of a veterinarian's income. When I started practice in 1975, we figured drug sales would make up 20% of our income. This is no longer true. The harsh reality of the modern economy (you can buy almost anything online, or at the pet store, or WalMart, or Tractor Supply) requires every businessman, even your vet, to derive his income somewhere else. So your vet feeds his family by selling his skills.....his diagnostic skills, his therapeutic skills, and his surgical skills. Just like any other professional, really.



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Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5657668 03/19/15 01:40 AM
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Can anyone answer this: with the 1.87% paste, that is one syringe/1250lbs, how many cc's is each click or increment?


Re: Ivermectin sources? [Re: aerangis] #5657717 03/19/15 02:04 AM
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dawaba,

Thanks for your opine up Didn't ask as a slight, but knew you where a vet, so likely knowledgeable on this. I was most curious about the diluting of the Ivermectin. I thought about leaving out the reference to vets and pharma income, but that wasn't the focus of what I was curios about and it was part of the article anyway, not my thoughts.

Concerning this "Just give the commercial preparations as per your vet's good advice and get on with your life." Is there an OTC product that you feel worth mentioning as far as HW? Also, I have had great luck using SafeGaurd dewormer (fenbendizol) (sp), much better job than Sentry IMO for worming, have any other options that may be better, or stick with the SG.

Thanks


If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

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