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Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
#5650668
03/14/15 03:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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junior
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Saw this review of various scopes and thought it interesting. Review Bushnell 3.5-21X50 did pretty well against much higher dollar scopes
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5650860
03/14/15 12:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
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Very interesting and thorough review. Wish he had included the SWFA HD 5-20. He says he didn't because it was on the bottom end of his price criteria, but it wouldn't have even been the cheapest scope in the lineup.
edit to add: admittedly, it's one of the most (if not the most) thorough scope reviews I've ever seen. Just wish I could've seen how the SWFA stacked up against the big dogs in his eyes.
Last edited by patriot07; 03/14/15 01:28 PM.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5651399
03/14/15 11:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: dee]
#5651547
03/15/15 01:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
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It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range. Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil?
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: patriot07]
#5651607
03/15/15 02:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range. Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil? A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry. I will read the review tomorrow.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: J.G.]
#5651615
03/15/15 02:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,439
TFF Caribou
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the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry. Sig worthy.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: TFF Caribou]
#5651651
03/15/15 02:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: patriot07]
#5651694
03/15/15 03:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6.5x47Lapua
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Wish he had included the SWFA HD 5-20. I doubt the 5-20 would have stacked up well against these other scopes. It just doesn't stand a chance in features or ergonomics. No zero stop, reticle options, no second rev indicator, no turret locks, mag ring problems, etc, etc. It would have been cool to see how it stacks up in the glass and mechanical performance tests. After all, these are the most important features of a long range scope. Does it track reliably and does it have good enough glass to identify the target?
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5651849
03/15/15 10:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: J.G.]
#5651855
03/15/15 12:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6.5x47Lapua
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No, but I'm not sure that really matters much. I haven't used most of the scopes on that list. A large portion of that test were based on a scopes features. Judging things like zero stops, turret locks, reticle options, secondary rev indicators, ease of use, etc, etc. That is where the swfa falls short. Thats ok, swfa is trying to provide value, and features cost money. I completely understand that. I too wish it would have been included. I am genuinely curious how it would have stacked up in the tracking and glass department.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652023
03/15/15 03:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 838
stxhunter
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I recently went with the bushnell model with the g2dmr reticle. I couldn't be happier for the price and don't regret the decision one bit!!
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652026
03/15/15 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,129
Brother in-law
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Obviously it lacks somewhere for it to be so great and none of the top big boys use it.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652062
03/15/15 04:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Very thorough, unbiased review. I really liked how he showed the value for your money chart.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: J.G.]
#5652075
03/15/15 04:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range. Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil? A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry. I will read the review tomorrow. Supposedly there is two different versions or standards of the milradian. There was a large discussion on SH about it after the review.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: J.G.]
#5652135
03/15/15 05:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
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It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range. Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil? A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry. I will read the review tomorrow. From what I've read, this is incorrect. There are 6283 thousandths of a radian in a circle. The US military rounds up to 6400 to simplify the math. This does help with the math, but also introduces a 2% error in ranging. Consequently, a "mil" to someone in the US military is actually smaller than a true milliradian according to a mathematician.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: patriot07]
#5652170
03/15/15 06:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Posts: 41,173 |
It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range. Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil? A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry. I will read the review tomorrow. From what I've read, this is incorrect. There are 6283 thousandths of a radian in a circle. The US military rounds up to 6400 to simplify the math. This does help with the math, but also introduces a 2% error in ranging. Consequently, a "mil" to someone in the US military is actually smaller than a true milliradian according to a mathematician. Yes, I saw the rounding. The military is also interested in shooting minute of man or vehicle, not minute of angle. If they choose to round up, that's their business, but it does not "change" the angular measurement of the Mil. Speaking of MOA, most of us call it a 1" @ 100 yard ratio.. However, those that use MOA at long range and extreme range know it is actually 1.047" @ 100 yards. Mutiply as necessary for those extreme ranges.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652195
03/15/15 06:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,564
patriot07
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Yes, that was my only point. Do scope manufacturers use a milliradian or 1/6400 of a circle? If there is a mixture of each or if the mil dot reticle is 1/6400 and all other mil reticles are 1/6283, that is the type of thing I was suggesting might account for the variance.
And I agree that for the military's use, the 2% rounding error is mostly irrelevant.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: patriot07]
#5652324
03/15/15 09:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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It was only mentioned of the March scope. I've not investigated a variance, personally.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652362
03/15/15 09:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,778
Gone to Texas
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Really cool article. I did not know tactical scopes could have a margin of error. For whatever reason I though all scopes tracked correctly, this is pretty eye opening and makes me want to check my vortex PST to make sure its tracking properly.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: Gone to Texas]
#5652472
03/15/15 11:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Very good thing to do on all newly aquired scopes. I admit I have not done it on all of mine, including the ViperPST.
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652731
03/16/15 01:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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junior
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On new scopes I am planning on dialing I will at least do a 4 corners test. From this review though I might have to try that 3.5-21 Bushnell.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: stxhunter]
#5652739
03/16/15 01:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 70
emory73m
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
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Posts: 70 |
I recently went with the bushnell model with the g2dmr reticle. I couldn't be happier for the price and don't regret the decision one bit!! I did too. Got mine last week. Awesome scope!
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: kmon11]
#5652741
03/16/15 01:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Heck I've been wanting that S & B for a long time. This review made the lust even worse.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: J.G.]
#5652913
03/16/15 03:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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Heck I've been wanting that S & B for a long time. This review made the lust even worse. I was the same way until the Kahles came out now it runs at the top of the list.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes
[Re: Gone to Texas]
#5654269
03/17/15 01:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
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Really cool article. I did not know tactical scopes could have a margin of error. For whatever reason I though all scopes tracked correctly, this is pretty eye opening and makes me want to check my vortex PST to make sure its tracking properly. They track well, but not perfect. My first scope when dialed 6 inches right was actually 6.5 inches, same for going up, then back left, then back down. It did end up dialing back to 0 when all was said and done, but .5 inch at 100 yards leaves little to be desired. My second scope is as close to spot on as I can see. It would need touch more technical measurements then what I have to be able to determine error.
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