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#5646029 - 03/11/15 06:03 AM Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ?
Thundervee Online   happy


Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 8408
Loc: Shepherd
I need to get this weim to recall, she comes most of the time but when she smells something, she acts like she can't hear me calling her and it's pissing me off. I have an e collar but I have never used one, is this the proper way to introduce her to it? Thanks for the help fellas
Quote:
Bring your dog from confinement to your training area. He should be wearing his e-collar and another collar, either a flat buckle or slip-type collar. Attach a 15-foot line to this collar and not the e-collar. Allow your dog to relax and explore his surroundings. With the e-collar variable intensity setting at zero, push the “nick” or momentary button to “tap” your dog. You will see no reaction. Now continue to “tap” at random, increasing the e-collar setting each time. Watch carefully, as the first signs that your dog notices the e-collar are subtle. When they first feel the e-collar some dogs stop sniffing the ground and look up; others may turn to look over their shoulder or shake their head as if a fly landed on their ear. When you see the first sign that your dog noticed the tap, stop increasing the e-collar intensity. After a short pause repeat a few taps at this setting to make sure that your dog did, in fact, notice the e-collar. If he did, this will be the introductory or teaching setting for your dog. The most effective intensity setting for teaching with the e-collar is one that is just significant enough that your dog notices the e-collar taps, but not so significant as to produce any panic or distress. If panicked by the e-collar stimulation, reduce the setting; if he shows no reaction, increase the setting. Caution: In an effort to integrate e-collars into the teaching phase of training, some trainers experimented with using the e-collar at low levels on a continuous stimulation. However, because the normal anatomical response to electrical stimulation is muscle contraction, using low-level continuous usually results in slow or resistant responses to e-collar pressure and command. Do not try to substitute low-level continuous for the momentary taps. Having identified the proper intensity setting for your dog, the first command you will teach is the “here” or recall command


Quote:

Teaching the Recall or “Here” Command

With your dog at liberty, the 15-foot line attached to his choke collar, and the e-collar on your introductory level, wait until he is again engaged in exploring his environment. Command “here” in a normal tone of voice and begin tap, tap, tapping with the e-collar as you gently pull or turn your dog toward you with the line. Stop tapping and praise as soon as your dog turns toward you. If he stops before reaching you, start tapping and repeat the “here” command. Praise him for coming and then wait for him to return to exploring. Repeat. You want your dog to discover that when he hears the command “here” and feels the tap, he can stop the tapping by moving to you. Work several of these recalls. Remember to praise your dog each time he comes before releasing him on “OK” and allowing him to return to his exploring. Don’t wait to see what he does when you call; begin e-collar tap, tap, tapping immediately after your command and add a gentle pressure or pull on the line. The correct sequence is: command “here,” then begin the e-collar taps and gentle line pressure at the same time. Both the e-collar taps and the line pressure end as soon as your dog starts to move toward you. Your dog discovers that he can stop the tap by coming to you when called. You are ready to move on to shaping the “heel” response when: a) your dog responds immediately to your command and tap on “here,” b) when he begins to linger longer near you after each recall, and c) you notice that even while exploring he is mindful of where you are.

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#5646158 - 03/11/15 08:01 AM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: Thundervee]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32587
Loc: Richmond


All bird dogs point. The breaking process teaches them to hold point. There are two ways to teach a dog to hold point, with dozens of variations. The first way is to let the birds train the pups. That generally involves launchers and pigeons, with some whoa breaking mixed in. It's very effective. I use the Delmar Smith method, substituting the e-collar for the bump under the chin. My dogs are completely whoa broke before I put them on birds. I use pen raised quail, because I can be done with them for the summer. I like to start in August, and finish in time for hunting season.

I start off on the whoa post. I introduce the e-collar the same day, that I introduce the whos post. Here's cracker on her first day with the whoa post;



I keep them on the whoa post only until I can get out in front of them, and then go to the yard for heel and whoa. Cracker tended to sit, so I had to start with the suitcase hitch. I go from the yard to longer walks. The pup has pretty well gotten it down after three weeks.



I then go from the walks to whoa in the field. Here's Cracker in the field in the field, before I put her on birds. This whole process has taken me around four weeks.



This is her first day on birds. I train alone, so I had to plant the bird, where I could wrap the CC around a bush. Notice the slack CC.



I kept her on the CC for three training days. She only went around on the bird one time. Here she is after 9 training flushes.




I started walking some of the birds out after a few days. Here you go;


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#5646402 - 03/11/15 10:27 AM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: Thundervee]
huck18 Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
To CC to the recall you can do it the way described but I prefer to use the continuous stimulation insted of several nicks. Same process. Put your dog on a check chord and start by using the lowest setting then work your way up until you get the response your looking for.

Evan Graham has a short video on YouTube of this process.

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#5646413 - 03/11/15 10:31 AM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: Thundervee]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32587
Loc: Richmond
You need to either teach whoa first or work with a helper. The pup will tend to get clingy when nicked with the collar. You need a way to hold it back until you give the command and stimulate it.
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#5646426 - 03/11/15 10:40 AM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: bill oxner]
huck18 Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 1711
Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
You need to either teach whoa first or work with a helper. The pup will tend to get clingy when nicked with the collar. You need a way to hold it back until you give the command and stimulate it.


Yes a helper is good but if you watch the Evan Graham video he uses a post as a helper to keep the dog at a distance.

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#5646436 - 03/11/15 10:47 AM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: Thundervee]
mbole Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 90
Look into the Perfect Start DVDs. Jon and Cindy Hamm describe it perfectly.

First spend a few days working on recall with a Check Chord. Say your command (here or come, etc), and tug on the CC until they come towards you. Praise when they get there AND stay there. Repeat this until you can get 3 solid recalls in a row without having to tug on the CC.

After doing that for a few sessions, bring in the Ecollar. Find the lowest setting that gets a reaction from your dog (NOT a yelp, but an ear flinch, a look, etc). Work on recall by saying the command, giving a tug on the CC and buzzing the ecollar, all simultaneously. Get 3 solid recalls in a row without having to tug. Work on this for a few days.

Transition to just using Ecollar by buzzing in continuous mode UNTIL they turn and run towards you. Timing is critical here. If they are struggling with this, go back to step 2 with the CC.

To avoid a "velcro dog" or one that will stay by your side all the time, plant a few birds with launchers in between sessions to get them excited to get out and search again.


Edited by mbole (03/11/15 10:48 AM)

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#5646673 - 03/11/15 01:21 PM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: Thundervee]
Thundervee Online   happy


Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 8408
Loc: Shepherd
Ok thanks guys.
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#5647331 - 03/11/15 08:20 PM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: bill oxner]
Birdhunter61 Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 368
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
You need to either teach whoa first or work with a helper. The pup will tend to get clingy when nicked with the collar. You need a way to hold it back until you give the command and stimulate it.


^^^ This, training pointers is different than retrievers. I use a check cord with a pinch collar/choke chain first to teach the "here" command. Introduce the collar only after the command is known. You don't want your pointer to associate the collar pressure to be related to you, otherwise it might never leave your side, same as being gunshy.


Robby

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#5647437 - 03/11/15 09:05 PM Re: Guys that have used an e collar, I have a ? [Re: Thundervee]
shooterwalter Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 1542
Loc: Poetry, Texas Kaufman County 8...
Back to the yard and basic obedience to perfection with a "One Word" command. Come: Here; Back what ever and with a "one Word" command not a conversation.

Forget electric and use buzzer or sound and it should work like a chasrm.
"mbole" above v told it right above when back in the field.
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