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#5641524 - 03/08/15 05:13 PM HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT.
Texaslawman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 542
This is another video showing how dependent the hogs are on the alpha or lead sow. I take her out first and watch the confusion that follows.

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#5641546 - 03/08/15 05:24 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
JRJ6 Offline
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Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 3899
Loc: Dallas, TX
cheers

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#5641625 - 03/08/15 06:07 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
hdfireman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 719
Loc: Flower Mound
Great example of how well it works to take the alpha sow out first. Great video.
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#5641674 - 03/08/15 06:31 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
Deadend Offline
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Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1956
Loc: Mineola,TX
rifle taz taz taz taz taz
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#5641717 - 03/08/15 06:52 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
Beaubien Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 473
Loc: In the mountains east of ABQ
Thanks fo sharing
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#5641797 - 03/08/15 07:21 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: hdfireman]
flintknapper Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 907
Loc: Deep East Texas
Originally Posted By: hdfireman
Great example of how well it works to take the alpha sow out first. Great video.


Not necessarily. Not to argue, because I do subscribe to the idea that taking out the 'lead' sow has benefits. Primarily it has the effect of 'dumbing down' a group/sounder until another Sow takes the lead.

In this particular instance...the case is being made that the 'lead sow' would have established an escape route and also kept the group somewhat together. That has not been my experience (in 25 years of hunting hogs).

IMO, what we witnessed is fairly common when night hunting. It is not at all unusual for the hogs to disperse in nearly all directions, especially from a field. Also, with a tree line behind them...it is likely they are getting a 'rebound/echo' of the rifle report, which in itself...can be quite confusing to hogs. We can produce dozens of videos where this same thing occurred...when the lead sow was not taken first.

I am NOT saying it isn't a good thing to do (take the leader), but I don't believe it is empirical evidence (in this one case) that it caused the hogs to react as they did. Sows with piglets are much less likely to beat a hasty 'retreat' also.

The real benefit of taking out the leader is realized later...when the herd is encountered again. IF there is not yet a new lead Sow, the herd DOES seem uncertain what to do. I have even seen a young 'boar' temporarily lead a group until supplanted by a Sow.

Again, I am in complete agreement that dispatching the 'leader' is a good thing to do (provided you can identify her), I just don't think that this video is proof that the supposed 'confusion' is because of it.

Great shooting...however, and there are five less of these horrid pests around.

Good job, outstanding video production.

Flint.
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#5641877 - 03/08/15 07:57 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: flintknapper]
Texaslawman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 542
Originally Posted By: flintknapper
Originally Posted By: hdfireman
Great example of how well it works to take the alpha sow out first. Great video.


Not necessarily. Not to argue, because I do subscribe to the idea that taking out the 'lead' sow has benefits. Primarily it has the effect of 'dumbing down' a group/sounder until another Sow takes the lead.

In this particular instance...the case is being made that the 'lead sow' would have established an escape route and also kept the group somewhat together. That has not been my experience (in 25 years of hunting hogs).

IMO, what we witnessed is fairly common when night hunting. It is not at all unusual for the hogs to disperse in nearly all directions, especially from a field. Also, with a tree line behind them...it is likely they are getting a 'rebound/echo' of the rifle report, which in itself...can be quite confusing to hogs. We can produce dozens of videos where this same thing occurred...when the lead sow was not taken first.

I am NOT saying it isn't a good thing to do (take the leader), but I don't believe it is empirical evidence (in this one case) that it caused the hogs to react as they did. Sows with piglets are much less likely to beat a hasty 'retreat' also.

The real benefit of taking out the leader is realized later...when the herd is encountered again. IF there is not yet a new lead Sow, the herd DOES seem uncertain what to do. I have even seen a young 'boar' temporarily lead a group until supplanted by a Sow.

Again, I am in complete agreement that dispatching the 'leader' is a good thing to do (provided you can identify her), I just don't think that this video is proof that the supposed 'confusion' is because of it.

Great shooting...however, and there are five less of these horrid pests around.

Good job, outstanding video production.

Flint.


Thanks for the response but I will have to agree to disagree. I have seen it work too many times, and have lots of video showing it. There is no doubt being at night, using thermal with no visible light source, and being suppressed helps with the confusion. But if it is a smart lead sow that has been in charge for a while they will follow her and not stop more often than not if she is still alive at least from my limited experience.
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#5642205 - 03/08/15 10:31 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
flintknapper Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 02/18/15
Posts: 907
Loc: Deep East Texas
Originally Posted By: Texaslawman
Originally Posted By: flintknapper
Originally Posted By: hdfireman
Great example of how well it works to take the alpha sow out first. Great video.


Not necessarily. Not to argue, because I do subscribe to the idea that taking out the 'lead' sow has benefits. Primarily it has the effect of 'dumbing down' a group/sounder until another Sow takes the lead.

In this particular instance...the case is being made that the 'lead sow' would have established an escape route and also kept the group somewhat together. That has not been my experience (in 25 years of hunting hogs).

IMO, what we witnessed is fairly common when night hunting. It is not at all unusual for the hogs to disperse in nearly all directions, especially from a field. Also, with a tree line behind them...it is likely they are getting a 'rebound/echo' of the rifle report, which in itself...can be quite confusing to hogs. We can produce dozens of videos where this same thing occurred...when the lead sow was not taken first.

I am NOT saying it isn't a good thing to do (take the leader), but I don't believe it is empirical evidence (in this one case) that it caused the hogs to react as they did. Sows with piglets are much less likely to beat a hasty 'retreat' also.

The real benefit of taking out the leader is realized later...when the herd is encountered again. IF there is not yet a new lead Sow, the herd DOES seem uncertain what to do. I have even seen a young 'boar' temporarily lead a group until supplanted by a Sow.

Again, I am in complete agreement that dispatching the 'leader' is a good thing to do (provided you can identify her), I just don't think that this video is proof that the supposed 'confusion' is because of it.

Great shooting...however, and there are five less of these horrid pests around.

Good job, outstanding video production.

Flint.


Thanks for the response but I will have to agree to disagree. I have seen it work too many times, and have lots of video showing it. There is no doubt being at night, using thermal with no visible light source, and being suppressed helps with the confusion. But if it is a smart lead sow that has been in charge for a while they will follow her and not stop more often than not if she is still alive at least from my limited experience.


Anything is possible. Reasonable argument can be made for many circumstances...when dealing with hogs. Sometimes it works in your favor, but just as often not. My own experience (noting the role of an Alpha female) does not support your assertion, but you are entitled to it.

I would not argue that under certain conditions...a herd might see and follow the Dominate Sow out of an area of danger, but at night...in a field of tall grass, with the herd already going two directions (very common) you would not convince me that they were looking to ANY member to 'direct' them.

If for no other reason...their night time vision is not that good. Not to mention the height of the grass all but obscures their view of the Alpha. Hogs make certain vocalizations, but I've never witnessed a Lead Sow use one to 'lead' a group anywhere. A 'warning' Grunt/Woof...yes. Which usually results in pigs going into high gear. This can be in all directions, or one direction...depending upon the setting and circumstance.

Observing a group of pigs 'turning on their back-trail' to escape might cause one to think they were following the Lead Sow. In fact...they are simply escaping to a direction known to be safe (they just entered from there). They do this with or without the Lead Sow. I've shot enough Lead Sows to comfortably make that statement.

Night time hunting is very different from daytime hunting (as you well know). There are many variables involved. Pigs that have not been pressured much and can't determine the 'source' of the shots being fired... often stop at some point or act as if they don't know where to go. Heavily hunted pigs will simply go to points 'yonder' with no regard to where the Alpha is. They gather together later.

The role of the Alpha Sow manifests itself more often as one that 'leads' the group TO an area. She may or may NOT be the first to enter a terminal point or even be the first in line when traveling. She is the domineering animal in the group, that is about all we can be certain of.

IF the lead sow suspects danger, most of the time she will allow subordinates or piglets to enter an area. Because of this..it can be difficult to determine which pig is actually the Alpha until you've had time to watch them, I know you know that.

I just don't think the video you posted depicts anything more than what is fairly common under the circumstances. Confusion/hesitation...yes, but not owing to the lead sow being dead. Rather... because it is dark, the herd ran two directions (not uncommon), tall grass, sows with piglets, suppressed rifle fire. Repeat it in the Daylight...Video that and you will have a new believer. smile
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#5642221 - 03/08/15 10:45 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
bigjoe8565 Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 3830
Loc: Mesquite, Tx
Cool video. I've always wanted to have a chance at multiple pigs.

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#5642259 - 03/08/15 11:29 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
altez Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/13/08
Posts: 429
Thanks for posting the video!

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#5642267 - 03/08/15 11:36 PM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
Texaslawman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 542
Flint I think they can smell her! wink
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#5642522 - 03/09/15 08:46 AM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
hdfireman Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 719
Loc: Flower Mound
I agree with Lawman that it does confuse the sounder by taking the alpha sow out first. It doesn't happen everytime but in my experience it happens more times than not. I hunt wide open crop fields where there is no tall grass or cover, except around the edges. I used to just shoot the big one and the remaining would pretty much book it in a line to cover at the edges of the field. Years ago Lawman and I were talking and he educated me on the alpha. I started watching them and picking her out. Now I try to take her out first. Same fields but now if I get her first more times than not they are confused. Now they split up, go different directions and many times actually loop back around to me. I've even seen them come back after dropping the alpha and start rooting in her area. I know hunting this way has allowed me to get more shoots on pigs.
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The 6.8 is the #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs in an AR15

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#5642760 - 03/09/15 11:26 AM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
REALKILLER Offline
Tracker

Registered: 02/19/15
Posts: 926
One time I was stalking through the woods with a bow and walked up on some boar hogs feeding. I hid behind a big pine waiting for a clear shot through the brush. It was a lengthy wait as they fed around under the trees. Then the weirdest thing Ive ever seen hogs do happened. They got close to each other and started to push up pine straw around their bodies. The biggest boar started making a moaning whistling sound and just like that they all went to sleep. I aimed at the biggest boar and released the acc and hit him through the top of the back sense he was laying on his side. They all got up and started making a chomping, blowing, grunting noise. Then they saw me as I took aim on another and hauled it out of there. I have spine shot big hogs before with a VIOLENT reaction by the other hogs. They started chomping and grunting real loud and attacking the wounded hog because it was giving out a hair raising scream that you could hear a mile away. I even shot a boar one time and he started attacking his own herd. FREAKY!. Spend enough time around these dudes and man the things you see. One time these two less dominate hogs were mad because the dominate boar was with the sow that was in season, so they stood up on their hind legs and started fighting, making some god awful noises, scaring all the deer in the field away. Thanks hogs. Guess what those suckers caught some lead in the grill. And I have been charged by several cocky hogs. They always loose. I definitely think that hogs have a pecking order, whether its boars or sows.
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#5642772 - 03/09/15 11:30 AM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
Dirt Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 311
Loc: Round Rock TX
Great vid.
Thx...........
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#5642779 - 03/09/15 11:35 AM Re: HOG CONTROL ALPHA SOW DOWN. FIVE HOGS TAKEN OUT. [Re: Texaslawman]
REALKILLER Offline
Tracker

Registered: 02/19/15
Posts: 926
Oh yea I always aim for the biggest first. Just feels right. And yes they can get a little disoriented when Im bustin some caps off in their [censored]. rifle
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Saw somethin big in grey out there. What is that? Oh #### !! thats a big ol buck. 😆

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