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How to bump back the shoulder?
#5624963
02/28/15 01:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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ltsheets
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I'm starting to have some tight reloads in the chamber even after a full length resize. I was told by a friend that maybe I needed to bump the shoulder back a little and it might take filing a couple thousandths off the bottom of the die to do so. I wanted to see if there was another way before taking a file to the die.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5624980
02/28/15 01:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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DStroud
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Are you already Sizing as much as your press will allow... getting a slight cam-over as the handle bottoms out?
If so there can be a couple of issues such as fatigued brass and annealing could solve the problem.
To answer the question yes there are other ways to get there without filing your die. Changing shellholders to one of the Redding that have different thickness is one option.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5624990
02/28/15 01:43 AM
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RiverRider
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+1
Don't start filing on your die. There are better approaches---ones that will WORK and not screw up your equipment.
In the meantime, DStroud's first question is very pertinent. You may need to screw your die into the press a bit more, but you can only go *so far* with that.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625130
02/28/15 02:31 AM
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It is caming over already but is it possible to cam over a little further? I think I'm a qtr turn past initial contact on the bottom of the die if that makes sense.
Last edited by ltsheets; 02/28/15 02:32 AM.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625144
02/28/15 02:36 AM
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RiverRider
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It would only be effective if your press frame happens to be flexing excessively. If you get good, solid, positive contact of the shell holder to the bottom of the die already WHILE SIZING A CASE then pushing harder is not likely to make any difference.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625186
02/28/15 02:49 AM
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Yeah I'll take another look at it but I think it's already solid contact. Hmmm
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625210
02/28/15 03:02 AM
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RiverRider
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Tell us more about the gun, the brass, the dies, the press, how many times fired, how you've adjusted the sizing die, your shell holders, anything at all. Maybe there's a clue we can help you decipher.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625219
02/28/15 03:07 AM
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300wsm custom on a M70 Pre-64 style action. I think these rounds are in brass that's been shot 3 times. Nickel plated Winchester brass. It's a Hornady lock and load press and RCBS dies/shell holders. I adjusted the sizing die "by the book." If I remember correctly, that is putting the shell holder in the press and adjusting the die until first contact is made, and then another qtr turn so that it cams over. Any of this help?
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625237
02/28/15 03:20 AM
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RiverRider
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Doesn't make the light bulb in my head go on (not sure that sucker isn't burned out), but maybe someone else has an answer for you. More info is a good thing.
Just how difficult is closing the bolt becoming?? Is it just a change you've noticed or something getting noticeably worse or already a real problem?
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625323
02/28/15 04:09 AM
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What do you mean burned out?? The loads are still safe and usable. Just a little stiff to cycle through.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625354
02/28/15 04:24 AM
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kmon11
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Several things can cause tight chambering,
I would start by trying to find where the bind/resistance is happening on the case. Color the case with a dry erase marker or sharpie. Chamber it. where it is tight should show some rubbed off. From that we might have a better idea of where to look.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625356
02/28/15 04:26 AM
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DStroud
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Sounds like the brass is just springing back a little and if you are sizing as much as you can then not much you can do. Personally I would not be too concerned unless they are tough to close. You could look into these to see if that fixes the issue. Of course annealing can work wonders but not real sure about Plated brass http://www.midwayusa.com/product/319992/...=ProductFinding
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625363
02/28/15 04:29 AM
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Buzzsaw
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Does it do this with brass cases? I never had luck with the nickel
Everything else sound kosher, maybe turn the die down another 1/4 or 1/2 turn.
Not sure if the pre-64 action has anything to do with it. WSM case is kinda different for a pre-64??
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625369
02/28/15 04:34 AM
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RiverRider
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What do you mean burned out?? That was a reference to the light bulb in my head, which may or not be serviceable at this point.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625372
02/28/15 04:35 AM
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The only brass case reloads I've shot are from once fired brass and they cycle perfectly. I didn't notice them getting tight until they'd been fired 3 times if I'm not mistaken. It's a pre-64 style action. The rifle started as a Win M70 Ultimate shadow in 300wsm and I used the action to get a custom built.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: RiverRider]
#5625377
02/28/15 04:36 AM
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Haha I was thinking you were referencing the rifle being shot out. I was like, I hope not as since the work was done it has less than 100 rds through it! What do you mean burned out?? That was a reference to the light bulb in my head, which may or not be serviceable at this point.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#5625380
02/28/15 04:37 AM
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RiverRider
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Not sure if the pre-64 action has anything to do with it. WSM case is kinda different for a pre-64??
I am pretty sure he means one of the 70 Classics, with pre-64 style action. But it shouldn't matter either way.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625556
02/28/15 09:33 AM
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mreed
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Is the brass trimmed to spec after sizing and the bullet seated to the correct COAL, I'm not trying to be the DA that asks stupid questions but just making sure the basics are covered
"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625616
02/28/15 01:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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The only brass case reloads I've shot are from once fired brass and they cycle perfectly. I didn't notice them getting tight until they'd been fired 3 times if I'm not mistaken. It's a pre-64 style action. The rifle started as a Win M70 Ultimate shadow in 300wsm and I used the action to get a custom built. Well the chamber didn't shrink. I'm gonna say annealing, and a scrubbing of the bolt head is in order. How much brass and carbon build up in on the bolt head? I just got an annealer and would be happy to anneal your brass.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5625738
02/28/15 02:33 PM
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603Country
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I have a rifle that does about what you are seeing with your rifle. The barrel is aftermarket (like yours). Factory rounds and loaded new brass chamber easily, but older cases that have been fired more times are snug when chambered. After giving it much thought, I believe that I have a chamber on the tight side and a sizing die that is a bit looser. After three firings, the case has grown as much as the chamber will allow, and the die isn't reducing one or more case dimensions quite enough. A different die might fix the problem, or maybe a Body Die from Redding, after a conversation with Redding about the problem.
As for me, I've got the snug chambering, but the rifle remains a great shooter, so I've quit worrying about it.
The above is what I think, and is not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, so if one of ya'll have a better understanding or explanation, put it out there.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5626280
02/28/15 06:46 PM
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RiverRider
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I don't use conventional shell holders any more, but I've often wondered how effective lapping the top surface down on 200-grit sandpaper would be. That might be a solution in this case.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5626885
02/28/15 11:50 PM
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10ring
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I'd do a run of loads without using those nickel cases and just stick with your brass cases and see if they size more consistent for 3-4 loadings. I'm only saying this based on some loads I was working on years ago with nickel cases in 300WM. I couldn't get any consistency with em. I haven't messed with nickel cases since. But just my experience and maybe worth a try.
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Re: How to bump back the shoulder?
[Re: ltsheets]
#5627515
03/01/15 04:43 AM
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Thanks everyone...i'm gonna take a look at all of these ideas when I get the time.
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