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Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
#5620267
02/25/15 09:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 191
TheOilman
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I'm looking at starting to reload .308 and from what I can tell the hornady rifle set just come with a bullet seater and full length sizer. Don't I need to only neck size so the brass is fire formed and more accurate? All my other stuff is hornady and has worked great so I want to stick with them.
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5620328
02/25/15 09:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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I full length everything, every time. Set the full length die to bump the shoulders of the fired brass .002".
Neck only sizing will eventually prevent a case from chambering and/ or prevent one from ejecting after a firing.
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5620493
02/25/15 11:13 PM
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Bar-D
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: J.G.]
#5620578
02/25/15 11:51 PM
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RiverRider
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I full length everything, every time. Set the full length die to bump the shoulders of the fired brass .002".
Neck only sizing will eventually prevent a case from chambering and/ or prevent one from ejecting after a firing. This is a variation of "partial" full-length sizing and is what I've done for many years. It's a good technique.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5620655
02/26/15 12:29 AM
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blackcoal
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The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: RiverRider]
#5621294
02/26/15 07:25 AM
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Gone to Texas
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I full length everything, every time. Set the full length die to bump the shoulders of the fired brass .002".
Neck only sizing will eventually prevent a case from chambering and/ or prevent one from ejecting after a firing. This is a variation of "partial" full-length sizing and is what I've done for many years. It's a good technique. How do you control how much you "bump" the shoulders?
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: Gone to Texas]
#5621356
02/26/15 12:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Measure three to five pieces of your brass with a head space gauge attached to your caliper. Screw the die down into the press until the die contacts the shoulder of the brass by hand tightening. Progressively size, measure again, screw the die in farther, size, measure again. Repeat as necessary until the die has pushed the shoulder .002" from the fired measurement. Lock the die ring down and get another piece of brass, measure before and after sizing. Tweaks may need to be made to the die on the first few pieces of brass.
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5621431
02/26/15 01:50 PM
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RiverRider
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Keep this in mind when adjusting your die deeper or shallower in the press: turning your die just 5 degrees will raise or lower it 0.001 inch. That's not much turn at all. When the second hand on a clocks ticks forward each second, it moves 6 degrees. If you don't believe that, here is how to figure it out...
14 turns in lower the die 1 inch.
14 turns = 360 x 14 = 5040 degrees
So, 5040 degrees gives 1 inch movement
Divide both by 1000
5040 / 1000 = 5.04 AND 1 inch / 1000 = 0.001 inch
So, 5.04 degrees rotation of the die raises or lowers it 0.001 inch.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5621455
02/26/15 02:04 PM
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RiverRider
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Another point, and I have had an awful hard time getting folks to recognize this...unless the shoulder angle of your sizing die EXACTLY matches your rifle's chamber (and therefore your fire-formed brass), relying strictly on measurements may result in bumping the shoulder back more than necessary. Measuring during the adjustment process will probably make it much easier to keep track of where you are, but that's really about it. When I set my dies up I turn the die about 0.001 inch at a time and keep going until I can feel the resized round chamber just a smidgeon more easily, as in how much effort it takes to close the bolt.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: RiverRider]
#5621707
02/26/15 04:38 PM
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J.G.
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Good stuff, Rverrider! I had forgotten about those numbers.
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5621983
02/26/15 06:54 PM
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Posts: 3,638
DStroud
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Curiosity question here. Has anyone neck sized only over and over using the same brass until they have serious difficulty closing the bolt?
Just wondering how many times you found you could neck size until you HAD to bump shoulder.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5622168
02/26/15 08:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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I think a lot of that depends on the cartridge and rifle. For my old 7mm-08 I FL size after 3 or 4 neck sized reloads using the FL die set shallow enough to not touch the shoulder. I let the rifle tell me when it is time, will the cases chamber without bumping the shoulder, if so I just necksize. If I do not want to go through that step then will either FL size or partial size as RR described.
With the LEE Collet dies I have gone as many as 6 reloads before needing to bump the shoulders.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5622184
02/26/15 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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I recently acquired some Lee Collet dies for neck sizing most of the rifle calibers I load. So far I've only used the .222 die a few times so I still have no idea how many times. I don't push the .222 hard, though. I also have the collet die for .280, which I DO push somewhat. I expect to see a difference when I get around to using it.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5622210
02/26/15 08:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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I have thought about taking one of the presses, dies and some premeasured powder charges to the range with the 6.5-284 and shoot a group using the same piece of brass and see how many times I can reload it with the Collet die and what the group would look like just using one piece of brass. Would all be cold bore shots by the time I reload between each shot.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: RiverRider]
#5623172
02/27/15 05:13 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,778
Gone to Texas
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Measure three to five pieces of your brass with a head space gauge attached to your caliper. Screw the die down into the press until the die contacts the shoulder of the brass by hand tightening. Progressively size, measure again, screw the die in farther, size, measure again. Repeat as necessary until the die has pushed the shoulder .002" from the fired measurement. Lock the die ring down and get another piece of brass, measure before and after sizing. Tweaks may need to be made to the die on the first few pieces of brass. Keep this in mind when adjusting your die deeper or shallower in the press: turning your die just 5 degrees will raise or lower it 0.001 inch. That's not much turn at all. When the second hand on a clocks ticks forward each second, it moves 6 degrees. If you don't believe that, here is how to figure it out...
14 turns in lower the die 1 inch.
14 turns = 360 x 14 = 5040 degrees
So, 5040 degrees gives 1 inch movement
Divide both by 1000
5040 / 1000 = 5.04 AND 1 inch / 1000 = 0.001 inch
So, 5.04 degrees rotation of the die raises or lowers it 0.001 inch.
Thanks for the info! I never knew about bumping the shoulders a certain amount. What case length headspace gauge do y'all use? I saw Hornady has one thats a lot like the bullet cooperator.
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5623211
02/27/15 06:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 191
TheOilman
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Sweet thanks for all the info guys.
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: kmon11]
#5623509
02/27/15 02:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
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I have thought about taking one of the presses, dies and some premeasured powder charges to the range with the 6.5-284 and shoot a group using the same piece of brass and see how many times I can reload it with the Collet die and what the group would look like just using one piece of brass. Would all be cold bore shots by the time I reload between each shot.
That as the reason I brought it up really. I have done sorta what you are talking about. I took 9 pieces of 17 Rem brass and neck sized over and over as that was all the brass I had right then. It never got to the point of being hard to chamber and the necks started splitting at 9 reloads so I trashed all. Repeated again with 10 pieces same results although I lost a couple to loose primers along the way to 9 reloads. I have 221 FB brass that has been neck sized a bunch and while it is a little stiffer than original stuff I have never felt I needed to bump shoulders. Not trying to make any particular point except don't think if you so neck sized that after a couple of loads you WILL have to FL size
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: TheOilman]
#5623515
02/27/15 02:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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DStroud, do you anneal your brass?
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Rifle Die set not come with a neck sizer?
[Re: RiverRider]
#5625050
02/28/15 02:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,638
DStroud
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DStroud, do you anneal your brass? At that time I did not but now I do about every 3 reloads on most brass. I still don't mess with .223 brass as I have so much of it.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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