Here we go again. Same chit, different day.

To kill anything with a rifle you have to shoot it. Otherwise carry a club. A bullet has a trajectory to 200 yards that must be compensated for. It doesn't matter if it is going towards hide or a piece of steel, or paper. Gravity is constant and unforgiving, bullets are affected by gravity and that must be allowed for. OP asked for options, one with a Mil reticle is an option. Then you come on here telling how he doesn't need it. Fine that's your opinion, not fact. Zero at 100 and don't allow for trajectory at 200 yards on a bobcat, and you will miss low with a long list of cartridges.

I agree glass quality is paramount, you can't hit what you can't see. And the scopes I mentioned have terrific glass.

Change with the times or get left behind.

Use holdover if you need it (which you won't very much at 200 and under). Not everyone needs a mark on an optic to know where to hold at reasonable ranges. Worrying about picking a reticle at 200 yards and under is an unnecessary (and time-wasting) complication.

"Change with the times or get left behind."

If that means having a bunch of useless stuff and leaving behind stuff you need (like binoculars on an elk hunt), I think I'll stay where I am. Some change is good. Change for the sake of change sucks.

(I really don't relish arguing with you-but you insist on making it personal by implying I am an idiot.)

I feel like when you're getting a 1-4 or 1-6 optic for an AR and you're not taking long shots, there are certain things that need to be considered. For example, you mentioned that it would be used for CQB, so to me I'd make sure that your scope of choice works well when being used as a red dot. True 1x, illumination, reticle that is not too busy, forgiving eye relief, and not too horribly big and bulky. Making shots out to 200 yards on animal size targets is not too horribly complicated, and doesn't require all the goofy bdc reticles or dialing anything in. Any scope you buy is going to be capable of doing the "long range" stuff, so why focus on that part?

Never have thought you were an idiot and never meant to imply such.

However, your way AND my way is not the only way. If a guy wants to run a certain type of rifle, scope, binocular, range finder, it is our job to help him find what he is looking for, not pass judgement against what he picks.

Once you learn how to use tools you didn't know how to use before, they are no longer "useless" as you put it. I happen to use those tools more days each week than not? How much do you look through optics and how much do you shoot?

The eye doctor keeps me in 20/15 vision at my annual check up, and the only piece of Swaro glass is my range finder. And Swaro makes terrific glass. Telling me I need something else is again passing judgement. How can you know how well I can see? You can't.

I'm not gonna let another thread get locked down by us because you showed up and did nothing more than muddy the water, and did not lend any help at all. Done with the argument

The statements I reference. Unnecessary.

At least two others on this thread have said the same things I have said. I'll step out and you can discuss it with them. That should be better all around.

this is a little more than you want to spend but I really like the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T. You can get into it for around $800. I've had it for a while now and have zero complaints.



http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/mark-4-cqt-riflescopes/

The leupold vxr are some good ones to look at.

I would just go the 1" at 100 route

Looks neat! Some will get the vapors at the thought of a dot covering 3-9 MOA though. Seems the folks at
Leupold might be thinking quick target acquisition is more important than surgical precision adjustments at normal ranges. And on a new product too.

You mean like this?

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx

Accupoint

Out of your price range, but to me this is the epitome of good choices for 1-4 optics for hunting 200yards and under.

I've got a couple Burris tac 30 1-4x scopes and have been real happy with them. Mainly used for pig hunting out to 200 yds. Little circle reticle on 2x is great when you drop the 1st one and the rest start hauling butt. They run right at $300.

it's written poorly - it's just like the pic, a circle vs. a dot. The dot is in the middle but the "circle" is the 3-9MOA it's referencing. very quick and functional without getting in the way.

None on the small ZA5HD, but I bought a ZA5HD 2-10x50 30mm on a moving sale for a do all carry rifle in a T3 260 I'm setting up, and everyone I've shown it to loves it. Wish't I'd gotten in on the deal sooner and bought 'nuther 2-10 and a 3x15x50 for not much more Just Sayin
Ron

Regarding the 200 yard argument...

He asked for my opinion so I gave it. I prefer mil reticle for a variety of reasons.
1) I can do wind adjustment
2) I can do elevation adjustments
3) I can range targets
4) if I ever go beyond 200 I am covered
5) I am calibrating my brain to do mil ffp on all scopes so I do not think between scopes

For the stated purpose iron sights could work realistically, red dot with or without magnifier or 1-4/6.


I Am about to buy either the 1-4 or 2.5-10 vortex for my ar

I don't think so-I think it means just what it says. I'm no expert though.

I think NP is right. It says at 100 yards the circle is 6' at 3x. My math isn't good but that's basically 72 moa right?

Subtension of the circle at 3X and 100 yards is 6 feet, approximately 72 MOA.

Subtension of the dot (in the center) at 3X is 3 MOA.

Subtension of the dot (in the center) at 1X is 9 MOA

This is due to the fact that it is a second focal plane optic. The values change as magnification changes. So on 3X the dot is covering 3” of an object at 100 yards. On 1X the dot is covering 9” of an object at 100 yards. If this were a first focal plane optic, and the dot was labeled as 3 MOA, then on any magnification the dot would be 3 MOA as the sight picture and the reticle shrink and grow together.

VX-R

Edit: exactly in your price range and in my opinion the best hunting scope in that price range. Also the most useable illuminated reticle on the market. Again my opinion but the nay sayers have probably never took one in the field.

I think you are right NP - I've ran this optic for years and would have bet against those numbers every day....

Here is a pic, 1x and 3x at a car at 126 yds away. at 1x the dot covers about 3/4th of the wheel (not tire) (couldn't get the camera and gun perfect, but you get the point) and at 3x it takes up about 1/4th of the wheel

Neat! Do they make that in an illuminated or other colored version?

I could foresee some issues with a black dot/black hog....

I recently bought a couple Leupold VX-R's. I got one 2-7x and one 3-9x...I really like the reticle and illuminated dot. There are several choices for the reticles and Natchez had them on sale for like $399.

it has illumination and can be used with NV on the lowest setting

No problemo then. Cool.

Tired Head agin