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#5616728 - 02/23/15 09:16 PM Tight grouping without sled or bench?
22hemi13 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 12/24/14
Posts: 166
Loc: Central tx
Ok I see all these pics of nice tight close groups. Is everybody shooting from a bench? I don't use a bench or sand bags. I will sit at a picnic table with a backpack that has misc hunting stuff in it. Get as comfy as I can and shoot away. So I guess I wonder is what should the grouping look like if it is more so the shooter vs a sled or bench? And I really need to get a sled cause those close groups look fun. I usually shoot 100yds cause that's all I really about all I can get on my place when I hunt

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#5616744 - 02/23/15 09:28 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
Bench or prone with a bipod and rear bag.
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#5616762 - 02/23/15 09:35 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
Precision_Shooter Online   content


Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 827
Loc: Crossroads, TX
Bench with bipod and rear bag as well. Have never used a sled or anything like that.
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#5616781 - 02/23/15 09:44 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
22hemi13 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 12/24/14
Posts: 166
Loc: Central tx
Maybe I should try a rear bag. Them tight groups sure look nice. I'm not missing by any means it's just not tight.

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#5616825 - 02/23/15 10:11 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
HorizonFirearms Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1616
Loc: College Station, Texas
I don't like the sleds, I use front bull bag and rear sandbag. From bench or from shooting pad
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#5616834 - 02/23/15 10:18 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Prone, bipod, rear bag provides the most stable position for me.

There is technique to it though. Make sure eye relief is correct, edge to edge clarity, level reticle, parralax error removed, slow steady pressure on the trigger, final pressure on the natural respiratory pause. In hot weather it is harder to do, since respiratory rate and heart rate are increased.
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#5616852 - 02/23/15 10:29 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
22hemi13 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 12/24/14
Posts: 166
Loc: Central tx
I control my breathing very well and trigger squeeze is good. Scope is good to go and I'm relaxed. Think I just need to try out some bags and rests. Maybe a bipod and prone. I'm shooting an old Stevens 110E 30-06 grouping is just over 1" 3 round groups @100yds. I shoot my wife's ruger .270 and I get 1"@100yds. Just not on top of eachother I want the same dang hole aim

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#5616859 - 02/23/15 10:34 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Seems like you're doing a bunch of things right. How heavy is the trigger? Are you shooting hand loads tuned to the the rifle?
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#5616867 - 02/23/15 10:39 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Same hole leads into cut rifled barrel, smith dual indicating while centering in the lathe and centering within .0005". Brass once fired and FL sized .002-3" to the chamber, powder loaded to .1 gr accuracy or better, bullet seated most appropriately to that barrel, then doing everything right behind the rifle.
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#5616881 - 02/23/15 10:49 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
22hemi13 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 12/24/14
Posts: 166
Loc: Central tx
Shooting factory ammo. Was using Remington from core lockt. Eh.... Got Winchester 180g that's better. Next I'll try hornady. I think before I go getting any more picky I need to update my rifle lol. The trigger pull is factory it's non adjustable. Guessing 3.5lbs maybe a lil more. Wife's ruger is 3lbs pull


Edited by 22hemi13 (02/23/15 10:49 PM)

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#5616916 - 02/23/15 11:40 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
Bullfrog Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 10596
Loc: N-Bedford
Be happy with the 1" groups sir with what you're doing currently. They're doing what they were intended for. I had to realize this a while back too
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#5616917 - 02/23/15 11:41 PM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
Bullfrog Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 10596
Loc: N-Bedford
Factory loads will absolutely make you crazy. Just when you find that one box with the right lot numbers that shoot well, you done shot em up and you buy another box of something from some other time they made them and they won't shoot for nuthin.
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#5616936 - 02/24/15 01:07 AM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20297
Loc: Texas
Lot of truth in what the frog said (did I just say that)

Sounds like you are doing a lot right, a more stable rest could very easily improve the groups some. Factory ammo has gotten better but it will not compete with ammo loaded to match your gun most of the time. I say most of the time because occasionally you find a load that shoots great from your gun, If you do buy all of that lot number you can.

Shooting the small one hole groups is fun, I use a benchrest style front rest or bags and a rear bag when shooting from the bench. Sometimes bipod if the forearm is stiff enough so not to flex and cause issues. Backpack from prone works as well. I rarely shoot those little groups from field positions but they are fun when you do. Shooting those tiny groups from a bench is fun but doesn't tell you what can be done from field positions.

Like a rifle and load that is accurate from the bench, then if I miss from a field position I know where to place the blame. On Me. I shoot mostly from the bench when working up loads or checking the scope. On occasion though I admit those one hole groups are fun, it is also too easy to have a group like that going and call a flyer that isn't an inch off but know it was me that messed up.

Biggest thing is have fun shooting. Thomas Jefferson was right. The gun should be your constant companion on your daily walk for it exercises the body and mind.
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#5617082 - 02/24/15 07:47 AM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
BigPig Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 9528
Loc: Forney, Tx
I always use a backpack filled with rolled up towels for a front rest because it's light weight and can be beat into the shape I need. For a rear bag I bought a $3 bag of fish tank rocks, taped the plastic down right and places in a tube sock and tied it off. It worked for me until I could find something better, which hasn't happened yet. I will be trying airsoft BB's instead of rocks because of the weight
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#5617153 - 02/24/15 08:22 AM Re: Tight grouping without sled or bench? [Re: 22hemi13]
WileyCoyote Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 4535
Loc: The Dogwood Capital of Texas
Necessity is the Mother of Invention was never more true a statement than doing more with less... like trying to shoot bugholes with equipment that was not designed for that goal, with shooters skills that have never been trained and practiced for that dedicated goal. Aim Small Miss Small ...IF you know how First is the initial step.

Reliable Repeat Accuracy is an art form that is learned over many hours and experimentation for what detailed minutia in any of the basic requirements suit you best, but only after you understand the principles and base level equipment requirements.

FWIW those learned skills also degrade without steady long term usage...but just like riding a bicycle can be regained more quickly after a layoff once the intial level of skill has been ingrained with no thought required. Trigger discipline, breathing discipline, getting past all the changes to your physical health after a several year layoff really can be done. BTDT that several times...but patience & dedication to the effort once you have The Knowledge to draw from is the key...and is where I am right now waiting to get back in the game, due to outside issues taking all my time, energy & $$'s.

Backyard practice with empty but primed brass was one of my "tricks" to practice shooting form, breathing and trigger disciplines behind a 6' tall privacy fence, and not have the Carrollton Cops all over my arse once upon a time. No 2 story houses overlooking me either....only had to be careful about when the lady couple houses down decided to work on her "all over" tan 'cause DPD & CPD's 'choppers always swarmed the 'hood when she was out by the pool. Up here a neighbor wages war on tree rats with a Gamo pellet rifle out to 50-75+ yards...and only "scores" head shots, not really expecting to add to his collection of tails....but that's OK by him too if it happens.

Repeatable At Will long strings of No Miss 3 point BBall nuthin but net shots from mid court is a good comparison...
Ron


Edited by WileyCoyote (02/24/15 08:36 AM)
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