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Hornady Press - cam over???
#5616578
02/24/15 02:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Korean Redneck
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I have a basic Hornady lock n load press kit. It says in the manual not to "cam over." What exactly does that term mean?
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5616616
02/24/15 02:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Run the ram up until the shell holder touches the die, and you pull the handle farther applying more force. Taking any slack out of all the metal in the press and die. If that makes sense.
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5616667
02/24/15 02:51 AM
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RiverRider
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When you lower the handle and the ram rises, there is a point at the end of the stroke where the ram actually begins to lower again, kind of like a piston in an engine reaching top dead center and that moment it goes past it. You can adjust your die so that the shellholder *just kisses* it, or you can lower the die a bit more so that you'll actually strain the press's frame a bit in order to lower the handle completely all the way down. When you do that, it's "cam over."
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617117
02/24/15 02:05 PM
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Korean Redneck
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So basically, I need to find out what the highest point of the ram is and set everything according to that. is that correct?
Also while on the topic, some people say with the resizing die to touch the shell holder, lower the ram a bit and then do an extra 1/8 to 1/4 turn. is that necessary?
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617143
02/24/15 02:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Many people who don't lower the ram and add the extra 1/8-1/4 turn will eventually have problems with the bolt not wanting to close because they are not completely sizing the rounds.
I had that problem. With mine you could still close the bolt, it was just very stiff.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617169
02/24/15 02:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160
J.G.
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That's for amateurs. Get the Hornady Headspace gauge kit that attaches to your calipers, and set your FL die to bump the shoulder .003" from the fired length. It yields more velocity out of your brass, makes the brass last longer since it is not over worked, and the bolt will close and open before and after firing, respectively.
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: J.G.]
#5617285
02/24/15 03:02 PM
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NTRP
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That's for amateurs. Get the Hornady Headspace gauge kit that attaches to your calipers, and set your FL die to bump the shoulder .003" from the fired length. It yields more velocity out of your brass, makes the brass last longer since it is not over worked, and the bolt will close and open before and after firing, respectively. Bumping more than .002 will cause case head separations.
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: NTRP]
#5617301
02/24/15 03:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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That's for amateurs. Get the Hornady Headspace gauge kit that attaches to your calipers, and set your FL die to bump the shoulder .003" from the fired length. It yields more velocity out of your brass, makes the brass last longer since it is not over worked, and the bolt will close and open before and after firing, respectively. Bumping more than .002 will cause case head separations. .002 is what I do and usually requires a cam over of the press.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: NTRP]
#5617347
02/24/15 03:41 PM
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J.G.
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I believe you, of course. Hasnt happened to me yet. I've been using turret press for several years, and have had a tough time getting exactly .002", so if was .002"-.003" I was fine with it.
But yesterday I mounted a Co-Ax to the bench and expect some issues to go away.
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617498
02/24/15 05:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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RiverRider
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There are varying degrees of cam-over. If you have to apply 50 pounds of force to the press handle, you're going to break or at least prematurely wear something out. Mild cam-over may be all that's required for best resizing.
Measuring to set up shoulder bump has its weaknesses. If the shoulder angle cut in your chamber differs from the shoulder angle cut in your sizing die at all, you're going to have some issues---not that they can't be resolved, but you need to understand what's going on. IIRC, you're an engineer (mechanical, wasn't it?) so you should have no trouble comprehending that. You CAN set up your sizing die to bump the shoulder by feel, but to be effective you have to realize that turning your die into or out of the press just 5 degrees will affect the "bump" by 0.001 inch. I can see where measuring could be very helpful in keeping track of where you are while getting the adjustment just right, though.
If you go strictly by measuring a fired case and setting your die accordingly, you could be leaving some precision and case life on the table.
JG, have you ever let your sizing die out one or two thousandths and then sized a case and checked it for the feel of closing the bolt on it?
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617532
02/24/15 05:25 PM
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Korean Redneck
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That does bring about another question. How "hard" does the lever need to be pulled? If my wife were hypothetically answering this question I would have to say to her how hard for who; you (a small 5'2" woman) or me (a 6' man).
Don't need to know ft-lbs but the best analogy I've heard is scope ring installation. If you don't have a torque wrench, then try and consistenly hand tighten the rings using just the short part of the L shaped wrench to prevent over-torquing. I'm looking for that sort of description.
I've already bent and ruined the center, threaded shaft of a re-sizing die by pulling too hard. I though it need that much to removed the primer. I ended up just bending the shaft and cracking the insert that helps size the ID of you case opening.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617575
02/24/15 05:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,517
RiverRider
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I've already bent and ruined the center, threaded shaft of a re-sizing die by pulling too hard. I though it need that much to removed the primer. I ended up just bending the shaft and cracking the insert that helps size the ID of you case opening.
When you initially set up your sizing die, back the depriming rod out of the die a good ways. You bent the deprime rod because if bottomed out in your case before the upstroke of the ram was completed. I understand your statement to say that you bent the rod AND damaged the expander button. You should go ahead and just replace them both. If you're using RCBS or Hornady, customer service may be a little more sympathetic to your newby-ness and send you the parts for nothing. Other makers...maybe and maybe not.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617599
02/24/15 05:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Korean Redneck
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I came to the same conclusion as your suggestion. I found a kit that had all the replacement parts. Not that it really matters, but I have some experience commercial fab and machining. I know what messed up looks like and believe you me, i totally messed up the whole rod and everything attached to it.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5617606
02/24/15 06:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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RiverRider
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Good judgement arises out of experience and experience [often and unfortunately] arises out of bad judgement. Wish I had a nickel for everything I've ever buggered up!
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5618009
02/24/15 09:37 PM
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Buzzsaw
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KR, I'm getting tired head...I wish you were up here so you could sit with one of us and we could "show" you all these things you are asking about. They will make COMPLETE sense when you "see" it in person. Don't over think it...........it's not that hard....... Hey...let you sweet wife (woman) help.....she will figure it out...
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5618090
02/24/15 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Korean Redneck
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Buzz, once i get the process nailed down in theory how I want to do things, then I planned on having my join me as I try my first real primed and powdered shot.
As for the woman, don't let what you saw that day fool you. When it comes to actual shooting, she is capable of carrying her own stuff and can more than holder her own shooting. However, I have to prep everything for her before she walks out the door. She's definitely a "girl" when it comes to preparing and packing part.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5618091
02/24/15 10:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
blackcoal
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This is one of those perfect examples of how quickly a person can learn reloading if they have someone to show them the fine points. Touchy/feelly. Constant repeat on a powder measure, setting die for a rolled crimp while having the bullet seated where the cannelure is in the exact place, seating primers, etc.
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5618099
02/24/15 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
blackcoal
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Sorry Redneck, wasn't trying to steal your post or change topic.
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5619386
02/25/15 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Korean Redneck
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No worries. I agree with your statement above. I only have limited resources. My screen name was suppose to be ironic as I'm just a first generation American, suburban kid. Meaning, guns is something I do as an adult so I don't personally "know" as many gun people. Besides, I figured I need to do as much homework ahead of time to make the time spent with such an experienced person (whom I haven't found yet but taking applications for the volunteer job) more fruitful and meaningful.
I'm a process guy in general, both professionally and personally. this thread is just part of the independent info gather phase of my "learning how to reload" process. And I'm sure the process won't stop once I get a set of 5 to group tightly once.
Also, thanks to all who indulge me and respond to these threads. this is all helpful.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#5620037
02/25/15 07:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160
J.G.
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Good judgement arises out of experience and experience [often and unfortunately] arises out of bad judgement. Wish I had a nickel for everything I've ever buggered up! ^^TRUTH!^^ KR, I'm getting tired head...I wish you were up here so you could sit with one of us and we could "show" you all these things you are asking about. They will make COMPLETE sense when you "see" it in person.
Don't over think it...........it's not that hard.......
"Tired head" And that's right. Tell you what KR, if you can allocate enough time to have an afternoon available the day before we shoot, come to my house and we (you with me supervising) can load a hundred rounds on my equipment. I've still got .308 Win dies, just bring the brass, primers, powder and bullets. Then we'll send em down range the next day.
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5620733
02/26/15 01:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Buzzsaw
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great offer JG
I think KR shoot .300 maggi
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#5620792
02/26/15 01:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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His brother does. I think he's 308 Win.
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Re: Hornady Press - cam over???
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#5621227
02/26/15 04:35 AM
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Korean Redneck
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I was the 270 tikka hunter. My younger brother was the 300wm. I ain't that stupid. Fireman, I will totally take u up on your offer. I'll decide on something soon.
Last edited by Korean Redneck; 02/26/15 04:38 AM.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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