https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo

In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as �armor piercing ammunition.� The decision continues Obama�s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.

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It isn�t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated �manufacturing� of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered �pistol.� Now, BATFE has released a �Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are �Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes� Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)�, which would eliminate M855�s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible.

By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of �a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.� Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it �may be used in a handgun.� It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered �armor piercing.� Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be �armor piercing ammunition,� but granted it an exemption as a projectile �primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.�

Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the �sporting purposes� exception to only two categories of projectiles:

Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles

A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be �primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes� under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge.

Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles

Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be �primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes� under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a �sporting purposes� exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes.

BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this �framework� and details on how you can submit comments.

Here is ATF clarification


http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/a...ng_purposes.pdf

Armor piercing is a funny term. You don't want it as a defining term for bullet construction.

More discussion..

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbth...23_ammo?#UNREAD

Kinda like the term assault rifle.

So am I the only one that is a little confused here?

Are they proposing to ban ball .223 ammo or just the steel core stuff?


The next question is if you currently own the proposed ban ammo, will you by law be able to hang on to it or would it have to be surrendered, by law?

Is Cheaper Than Dirt charging $2 per round yet?

I hope you get to hold onto it. I'll sell it for $2 a round and switch my AR over to 300BLK haha.

A sportsman voting for a Democrat is like a chicken voting for Colonel Saunders.

They will be soon.

Well now.....now I understand why a fellow at Cabellas today was loading up can after can into his cart and I couldn't find a box of the Federal MX855 that was supposed to be on sale...well hell....

Is that the 62gr green tips?

They are talking about the M855 ball that currently has an exception. From what I read, it sounds like this to be a total ban on ammo that meets their definition of armor piercing. The exception will be removed which means anybody that has any M855 ball would be in violation and would be required to surrender it.

Yes Gravytrain M855 is the 62gr green tips. SS109 is also 62gr and the exact same bullet (but not green tipped) - it is the Nato standard whereas M855 is the US designation - so unless the government is inept (possible) if they ban one they will ban the other.

Pegasaurus, that information is incorrect. The ban would be against manufacturing, importation and selling by licensed manufacturers...It will be just as legal to own and to sell to someone else as 7.62x39 Chinese Steel Core is now. Of course though, prices went thru the roof on the stuff.

"federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession,"

Crap, Crap, Crap...was just debating on whether to order some a couple of days ago from Palmetto State for $169 for a 420 round can of M855 on strippers with free shipping...all gone now.

This is a slippery slope. How long until they move on to other handguns, such as bfr's(45-70, 30-30, 30 carbine, and others.). They leave an exemption for single sgphot handguns but not revolvers.

Another point is any fmj 223 can penetrate soft body armor. How long till they tweek the definition to include it?

So people are expected to turn it in or never use it or will they will just stop selling it but
grandfather the stuff already out there?

you can keep what you have. Prices are already going up a lot since yesterday. It's going for $1 per round I hear on gunbroker already...madness..

I noticed the CTD removed their 855 from their site. Cant wait to see what the new price is. It was $399 per case of 1K for Lake City before it was removed.

On a more positive note..........I ran across a whole case of Remington Bucket Of Bullets 22LR today. $70 per 1400 round bucket. I didn't buy any at all. Maybe this means people will turn their attention to the M855 ammo and leave the 22LR alone.

Already stocked up, no worries here.

Hopefully this'll be a temporary thing, like the AWB.

JCB, I'll bet CTD opens it back up around $799-899 per K. It'll only go up from there.

No worries, though. If folks wait a bit longer, they'll have the opportunity to buy a case of M855 for just over a grand. I suppose if one has to have it right NOW, no price is too high.

I went a different route and bought a 1000 ss109 bullets a couple of years ago told myself i was never buying otc ammo ever again only ammo i will ever buy is 22lr thats it not going thrue that bull $!#� ever again

I wonder what happened since 1986 that made M855 so much more dangerous that it NOW has to be banned forever.




I know, I know. Rhetorical question.

So, load up, or no?

Cabelas has it in stock online right now, the bulk packs are gone but single boxes are available.

The time to load up has long passed.

If you do not already know who represents you in congress and their contact information here is a handy website for that.

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

Just put your zip code in and search. You will get phone number, fax number and web contact information. My reps already have emails sent.

In reading what the ATF put out, it looks like its just the M855 suff...is that what yall are seeing?

Yes, but its driving sales of all 5.56 right now.

oh darn what will I do without .223

It was like what, $399 yesterday morning?

They're gonna do what they're gonna do.

Does anyone know if any ammo manufacturer's are doing a mass email where you go to the sight and fill in your info and your reps get generic email regarding the issue. I know Ruger did something similar in the wake of the proposed assault weapons ban after sandy hook.

Cabelas has it for .50 a round right now.....in stock online.

That's still highway robbery.

$.45-$.50 per round has been the norm for a pretty good while now unless you were buying in bulk. Every now and then you could catch a pretty good sale on it but for the most part $9-$10 per 20 rounds was pretty normal.

My bad, J. Makes me glad to have local retail stores.

Check out TGT & Gunbroker now..

Good stuff! Looks like $1 a round is what people are expecting on TGT.

Cant believe some of those clowns that feel its their duty to post those "price gouger" ads over there. Something tells me they missed the bus and got caught flat footed without any ammo and now they want someone to sell them some of thiers for less than market value.

These is the reply quote i got off my add on armslist

"This ammo is on the shelf of every wallmart and academy in town right now $70 for 150 rounds. Also the ATF does not push any bans. They only enforce the current laws. Go peddle your scam somewhere else"

"Your lower than pond scum , raping innocent people , your the worst kind of gun owner there is "

I had about 500 rounds of 855 , a bunch of 223 soft point , couple boxes of varmint loads and even a few sierra game kings , I had the lot listed at around $.65 for it all . Sold the ar forgot i had the ammo sitting in the closet . I was very surprised at those kinda of comments .

Doesn't surprise me at all. People want what they cant have but they want it at a price of their choosing.

I'd of told him to piss off and buy it off the shelves then instead of wasting everyone's time.

Try Academy.

I picked up a 900 round can at the store in NRH. $449.50 But they had a least 5 more that I saw.

Get it now. Doubt there will be any more.

Seems like only M855 and SS109 rounds being affected! Why should I be concerned about this? 223 ammo is still 25 cents around on ammoman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-Pu8n_BHg

Okay maybe apathy is wrong. Great video on issue

Well looks like AIMSURPLUS is still selling it for regular price.

I'm sure they will be sold out pretty soon, get it before the gougers get you...

Link

Man heck leave my little ol .223 alone ya jacks.

Natchezss has tons of the green stuff avail in 600, 900, and 1200 pks at .49c / rd :


http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM855B6

I must start by saying a citizen of the United States of America I find it sad the way the government decides to continually erode the Bill of Rights by making more and more laws restricting what we as citizens can or cannot do. Which weapons I may or may not own or use to hunt. The second amendment does not pertain to hunting/sporting purposes, it refers to protecting oneself from a too powerful government. The gov�t already restricts certain accessories and weapons.

As a Law Enforcement Officer I have never been concerned about armor piercing rounds. I get dressed each day and perform my duties with the intention of making it home each day. I am well aware the biggest three killers of LEO�s in America are:
Vehicular accidents
Heart Attacks
Self
The body armor we wear each day is hot, uncomfortable and I refer to it as prophylactic, it exist to give us a false sense of security. It covers such a small portion of our bodies, the things it does protect us from are limited and then there are things with sharp points that go thru like butter. Is it better to be shot in the pelvis with a lead round ball from a musket or shot in the chest with armor piercing ammo from a machine gun? I would prefer neither but I accept that either could happen any day.

Thank you for your time,

So let's say that the proposed ban goes through, who is to say that later this year they don't expand the ban to all ammo that can be fired from a pistol that could pierce armor?

Well, that was fast;
ALL the 223 at Natchezss that was under 50c a round: GONE!

even the non-green tip!

the hoarding has begun (again...)

It's just a little out of control. When did parts of the government other than congress start making all of these laws and restrictions?

Just bought some xm193, 2k rnds for $799 damn impulses.. It is going fast fellas, took me 2 hrs to find any that was still reasonable in stock. xm855 was scarce or sky high already

Have a Colt I have never pulled the trigger on

The ruling won't impact my shooting because I don't need anymore green tip than I already have. I want to poke a big hole in something hard, I have other guns that will do that better. BUT, I AM dead against this kind of dictatorial action.

With this new definition of Armor Piercing ("able to penetrate police issued soft body armor") they open the door for .30-30, .308, .270, .243, etc., etc. - because there are "handgun" configurations for all of those and more.

If they get away with this new 'ruling' / re-definition, it will open the pathway to 'redefine' any thing they want,
and when they are 'done',
you won't even be able to have a pop-tart shaped like a gun.

My understanding is any of the 223 ammo that can go through a bullet proof vest is considered armor piercing, which to my understanding is all 223 and 556 ammo.

From what I read this morning, also was on a news program last night, both 223 and 556 since they can be used in a handgun now...Obviously a "land grab" against the "black rifle". Is there not rifles chambered in in 45,44 and handguns chambered in nearly every configuration? Wont stop with these 2 rnds either..under this premise.

This may have been the article (read quite a few)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/...posed-ammo-ban/

That's not what I have been hearing for nearly 2 weeks. Its my understanding that they are just looking at the 5.56 M855/ss109 ammo. They typically have a green tip (though not always) and a steel tip insert. At this time it does not look like any other 223/5.56 ammo is going to be affected.

For now.

Exactly. Neither M855 nor ss109 are technically armor piercing rounds according to the government. So, if these rounds get banned due to their potential to pierce body armor, well that opens up pandora's box. At that point, based on that ban, ANY ammo that could pierce body armor could easily be banned. So every high caliber pistol round along with every rifle round over a .22 could be banned.

To add to that, the government only recognizes "sporting purposes" to be skeet shooting and pistol competitions which helps to open the door to other bans.



I posted this on this board on December 11th of 2012;

As we all know...this is the beginning.....get this passed and then whittle away.

You have to ask, "What problem is this ban trying to fix?" There is no problem so obviously this is just a political move by the Obama Administration.

Exactly and it's about the composition of the bullet, not the armor piercing or handgun use. They will get these through that language, then get lead bullets (that aren't banned under this provision) under the EPA.

Barnes is screwed

The Barnes TSX issue came up several years ago in regards to the larger caliber solids. Don't remember how that all worked its self out but the fact that it was a mono metal bullet of a certain size became a issue.

If they can get away with this now, the semantics they are using sets the precedent for them to go as far as they want to in the future. That's why it's happening this way now.

Panic of 2015 has begun I suppose. I'm stocked up on 55 grain bulk as well as others, but was checking on some 75gr BTHP which was sold out on SGAmmo website. Almost every kind of 223 was sold out. BATFE worries me, but EPA even more so with regard to lead ammo. Look what they're trying to do on water control via "Waters of the USA". It's all about control with the alphabet agencies....healthcare, guns, ammo, water, you name it.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/204096-farm-bureau-pledges-to-fight-epas-water-rule

Just got back from Academy in Mesquite. All the 5.56 on the shelf was wiped out! All that was left was high end 223. Not even any cheap 223.

Had to laugh because I over heard two guys talking and heard the younger guy say "I have never wanted any until now and the only reason I want it now is because they don't want me to have it". Started to offer him some for a buck a round.

He'd buy it, too.

went to cabelas picked up 100 rounds 556 not jacked up prices, was all they had out. did pick up some 45 9mm and 308 because the son wants to go shooting for his birthday. wife also stumbled onto a coach gun at a good price so we picked it up and some 45 projectiles in the bargain cave and called it a day

I'm noticing this on most online websites;
Store shelves are slowly emptying too.

Get ready for $1 a round again . . .

Buy enough when it's .35-.45 cents a round and you won't contribute to the buck a round madness.


There'll be plenty out there defending the higher priced purchasing, though. Hey, there's an inflated market that must be supported out there!

Same thing happened Jan 2013. Give it a few months, prices will come back down.

I was in a local Wal-Mart Sunday and they had a bunch of ss109 $9.98/30 rd box. I almost bought a few hundred rounds but then I said to myself "Self, you have a ammo can full of SS109 that has been sitting for about three years. Can't shoot deer with it, don't really want to shoot pigs or coyotes with it. Why not leave it for the next guy."

So I did. I would think most people have a pretty good stash of what they need these days given the amount of "scares" the last few years. Feels good to not buy into the panic.

Bingola.

Feels pretty dang good to just sit back and watch the panic unfold instead of participating. Sux that it has to happen in the first place, though.

My Wally Mart has had probably 8 cans of ZQ1 for a couple of weeks now along with tons of the 30 round boxes. Just left there awhile ago and all but one of the cans are gone but still plenty of the 30 round boxes. Funny thing is the 30 round boxes are quite a bit cheaper per round than the 720 round cans.

Well, it appears as though the ATF has already taken the green tip exemption out of their new regulations that were posted in January!!! So in essence, they have banned the ammo in January, then in February sent out a proposal to ban the ammo that is already banned, then in March they will look at the comments from the proposed ban that was already done and laugh at the comments, since the ammo is already banned. Does that make sense?

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlic...nition-n1966761

Now some House Democrats are trying to make it a law.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/...from-democrats/

Their bill says it will ban any rifle bullet that can pierce Police body armor. Any center fire FMJ will pierce body armor up to Type III-A.

and this is why I have been stocking up over the last few years. They were scared to say what they really wanted, but now it is coming out in the open. Stock up now before the next scare.