Timing is everything. We bought our place in '99. Back then land in Erath county could be bought for $500 an acre. It's worth 7 times what we paid back then. We probably couldn't afford it at todays prices. We don't do vacations, drive new cars or blow money at the casinos and are generally frugal. Still don't see how people could afford a NICE place at todays prices.

My daughter and her husband are fine and her student loan is paid off. They didn't do it. So no, I don't know for a fact that it's a recipe for disaster. I just know that the kid (he was young) had the attributes of a pyramid marketing salesman and a snake oil salesman combined. Seminars for recently graduating med students with absolutely no business or finance experience or training. Like sheering sheep. And - he moves around a lot. Go figure.

I have some financial people that help me. And they're not life insurance salesmen that call themselves financial planners. They've never suggested a hair-brained idea like not paying off debt and "use your money elsewhere." Shamelessly stealing from Ramsey - but, what's not's being considered between 4% and 7-8% is that big bugaboo risk. I'm not risk adverse, just know situations where the house (no pun intended) usually wins.

We have land in south Gillespie county. Folks regularly ask for 10K an acre. 'Don't know how many get it, but I don't think they come down a lot when they sell. I'm not saying I could get it, but folks do list at that regularly.

Ceek, sounds like you had exactly that...a insurance salesmen trying to pitch your kid a cash value insurance plan.

But the idea isn't hare brained. Lots of people advise it based on different situation

Couldn't agree more with you Erath.

I couldn't agree with you more TXTrophy, bought my 70 acres in Spring 2008, the start of the downward market.

Where I hunt the same pastures listed 7 years ago are still for sale today and at cheaper prices. Anywhere from 160 to 500 acres. Seems likes great investment!! Location and amenities of course play a big factor but I am less than 2 hours from DFW so it should be a slam dunk....

What county? Lots of stuff was way overpriced in 07 right before the financial crisis...

Montague. I am joking about the investment. Yes, some nice places there but where I am the land is rough, not worth $2,900 an acre for sand, mesquites and cactus with county road bordering it asking for poachers. Deer about 1 per 20 acres if you have cover.

Yeah. I can't convince anyone who doesn't want to listen. Which is probably a good thing for me. In order:
1. Amount you can borrow.
2. Knowing current land values.
3. Purchase price.
4. Knowing and doing what makes the land more valuable.
5. Timing.

As long as you can do the first four good. You can make timing irrelevant. Because doing those first four right allows you to outlast a few years of bear market.

Perfect example. I bought my zavala co ranch in 06 for 1500/ acre. Timing was great for the first couple of years, land around me was selling for 2200/acre in 2007. Then 2008 came, in 2009 the ranch next to me sold for 1200/acre. Last month a similar ranch near me sold for over 3800/acre.

Timing is irrelevant if you are an average dummy.

You either "can", or you "can't".

Wow. Never sold a ranch to someone with a 9-5. Don't doctors and lawyers and execs work ~9-5?

Anyway, i know a lot of 9-5'ers and shift workers who buy ranches. Some pretty big ones too.

Rancher,

I'm a little curious about your 1st purchase when you got started in 96. Can you give any info?

On your list the first two should be done way before someone even walks a property imho...

Number Three and Five we both agree are important, I feel timing is more important.

What I'm curious on is number four...? What do you feel maximizes the value after the sale is closed and you own the property...?

There are multiple ways to increase property value. Improve habitat (brush clearing alone can add much value), improving water sources, managing the wildlife. I have bought and sold several ranches that I improved first and sold for a very nice profit. There are several businesses in Texas right now that do just that - find ranch land, buy it, do the above mentioned improvements and then sell for a nice profit. Limiting the carrying cost (loan interest/taxes) is important so that if you have to hold it for awhile you can

yep, this is all true

ya'll left out the biggest profit maker - put a house on it!

Actually a house can be the biggest problem when you have a couple looking at place to buy. They house never fits their needs(especially the wife). The house is either to small or to large for the asking price when it is figured into the price of the property. A stock tank/pond and a barn with living quarters will get more interest than a house. I looked at over 50 properties in a year period. I only found one that had a house that was close to what I wanted and needed. The land was not what I wanted at all and it is not far from where I live now. I preferred the land without a house or improvement other than a water well/electricity on them. Others might want something else.

OK...thank you. I am already doing these things, just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. I also heard a nice entrance/gate (nothing over the top) helps alot as well. I guess first impression...?

Funny thing is with brush/mesquite is that if you clear too much away your deer may disapprear as well...

I can't disagree with you STX. People can be finicky! But slap a decent mid size house on 50-150 acres & more often than not you will get a huge return. I used to know a retired school teacher who made himself into a very wealthy man by buying building and selling, and then starting the process again. a few of them already had houses & he just improved. His wife passed when he was in his early 60's & he used the life insurance $$ to get started. Cancer finally got him though.........

I agree about size. That is why I stated smaller house. When I was looking at places I had a friend looking also that had just sold his ranch and was doing a tax-free exchange. He only found 1 house that fit his families needs out of about 40 ranches he looked at. He did not mind a smaller house but anything to large was a no go. If he was to make and offer then he would have offered only for the land/improvements less the house. One place he said he would bulldoze down the very large old ranch home or cut off 200 acres or so and the old house to resell. We talked about what size house added value to land for us and we both decided that a barn with living quarters would fit our needs better than a house. Same if we wanted to resell, that way the new owners had a place to live and then could build whatever they wanted for a home to live in. We felt that would be an improvement that would grow in value with the land. We ask a lot of real estate agents what was the key improvement that they would have asked about and most would say a stock pond/tank first then some type of living quarters followed by new/good fencing. Also the location as to how far from town also was important in the size or type of living quarters you could get your money back from.

I was going to stay out of this because you already pissed me off by stating I could not do what I have done. But what you said about building a house on raw acreage to enhance its value has got to be one of the dumbest statements I have read in a while. Why would a person pay extra for something he probably does not really like. Probably not the size he wants. Probably not laid out like he would want. Probably not in the location on the property he would want and those are just starters. Ranchman was completely right on his assessment of houses on raw land. I can now see why you are still trying to pay off whatever it is you are trying to own.

real life story. Bought a 440 acre ranch in 2000. Had a nice house on it and some brush cleared. 8 acre lake on it. Some hay fields and some cedar/brush. I paid $750,000 for it and we lived there five years. I high fenced it, managed the lake for the fish, brought in some nice deer for genetics, bought another 100 adjoining acres from a neighbor for $1000 an acre. It had a live water, nice creek running through the middle of it. All in all I probably ended up putting an extra $150-200,000 of improvements into it. On top of it all we lived there and got to enjoy it for five years. Sold it for $1,850,000. Not a bad five year return on a property we lived on and used five years.

Prior to that I bought 140 acres with a nice pond on it. Cleared the cedar, dug a well that fed the pond to keep it full, managed the lake for fish, and built a small cabana on the lake. Paid $400,000 - spent maybe $50,000 total in improvements (plus my sweat equity) and sold it two years later for $850,000.

In my view you have to be patient and find the right property going in and get it for a decent price. Do the improvements and chances are you can sell for a nice financial gain.

you try and create a turn key property that is move in ready

I never advise to build a home. barns/barndo's are ok but first and formost is water followed by habitat enhancement and fencing.

Houses can be a death sentence on otherwise good properties if its not what a buyer is looking for

Exactly
The topic of this thread is fitting.

That's exactly what I'm talking about tlk.

Maybe I wasn't clear. Has to be the right size & the right location. The retired teacher I mentioned earlier did all his in the hill country. None of the properties were large hunting ranches, but they could be hunted. He would build and live in them a year or 2 and put them on the market. He split some of the properties if they had good road frontage. His places were for retirees and families that wanted to get out of the city, not for someone looking for a large hunting ranch. The large ranch brokers have a different clientele. The demand for those smaller places is still strong.

Don K - Property records are public these days with a few mouse clicks. I had to buy my property, it wasn't "gifted"

I totally agree, lots of difference between 50 acres versus 500 acres versus 5000 acres...