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#5593117 - 02/10/15 06:51 PM Just heard about this one
huntandfish Offline
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Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1680
Loc: Seclusion, tx
Just heard the atf has reversed its decision about the sig brace. If its shouldered, its a sbr and needs a stamp.
Article was from last month, but haven't heard anything about it. Have a friend who bought one thats pissed. Guess he should of used the cost of a brace to do a sbr. Don't know if it can hold water if just by shouldering it redesigns it, seems it would be hard to hold up in court but who wants to try first?
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/18/anothe...ilizing-braces/

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#5593135 - 02/10/15 07:12 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Gravytrain Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 16952
Loc: Rowlett, Tx
Exactly why I never bought one of those things.

Had a feeling it would turn into a pain. Sucks,
but finding out whether it holds up will be expensive
for anyone that tries.


Edited by Gravytrain (02/10/15 07:13 PM)

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#5593233 - 02/10/15 08:12 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
BCJ Offline
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Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 1987
Loc: Frisco
I would think it would be an easy conviction in court with a simple photo of the accused shoulder firing a firearm with a barrel under 16".
It only cost $200 for the stamp to play the game right instead trying to work around the rules

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#5593238 - 02/10/15 08:15 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: Gravytrain]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: Gravytrain

Had a feeling it would turn into a pain. Sucks,
but finding out whether it holds up will be expensive
for anyone that tries.


Exactly my thinking.
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#5593255 - 02/10/15 08:26 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Tim9880 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 441
That ruling is odd... kinda says if you fire a pistol with two hands you have "redesigned" it and are a felon.

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#5593281 - 02/10/15 08:47 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: Tim9880]
Ace_Inthe_O Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/29/08
Posts: 350
Loc: DFW
Apparently it's all about intent if you intended to make an SBR and instead bought a brace and used it as such then you are breaking the law. If you bought a pistol then happened to shoulder your pistol that is not illegal. Not advocating to try this out not worth messing with the ATF

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#5593321 - 02/10/15 09:11 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
tth_40 Online   content
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Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 13738
Loc: North Texas.
I don't get why it would have been looked at any differently than something like this:

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1201
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Originally Posted By: theserxtremedays
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#5593460 - 02/10/15 10:31 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: Ace_Inthe_O]
Toxarch Online   content
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Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
Originally Posted By: Ace_Inthe_O
Apparently it's all about intent if you intended to make an SBR and instead bought a brace and used it as such then you are breaking the law. If you bought a pistol then happened to shoulder your pistol that is not illegal. Not advocating to try this out not worth messing with the ATF


^This. The key word is "intent".

Quote:
“[a]ny person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA.”


The reason they released the statement is because they kept getting letters from people (it boiled down to one specific person when they sent out the release) asking if it was OK to build a pistol with the Sig brace and shoulder it. If you build a pistol with the intent to shoulder it, then you are not building a pistol per the ATF definition. As long as the intent is to build a pistol with the intent to use it as a pistol, then you are legal. If you happen to shoulder it later, then that's not the issue. The issue is the builder's intent when building the weapon. If you don't tell anyone anything about your plans, then it can be assumed your intent is a legal pistol with a Sig brace attached.
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It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

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#5593491 - 02/10/15 11:11 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Tim9880 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 441
Eh. The letter states:

"The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked."

so "use" of the brace, not "intent to use" is deemed a "redesign."

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#5593541 - 02/11/15 12:37 AM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Toxarch Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
Well, then it sucks for those who spent money on one.
_________________________
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#5593675 - 02/11/15 07:51 AM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
KRoyal Online   sleepy
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 13637
Loc: Sherman/North of Dallas
Should have just done it the right way to begin with.. The price of the brace pays for the stamp and they're at a 1 month wait at the moment. Never understood doing something halfass like this. No one that buys a sig brace uses it for its intended purpose. Everyone uses it as a wonnabe SBR option. Not sure why the ATF ever authorized this thing in the first place they knew what people would use it for.

Of course I don't think SBR's should be regulated in the first place but that's another story.
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#5594013 - 02/11/15 10:43 AM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Varget 7-08 Offline
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Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 4968
Loc: SA / Helotes, TX

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#5602441 - 02/16/15 01:57 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Gravytrain Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/06/11
Posts: 16952
Loc: Rowlett, Tx
once you have a stamped SBR, what are your foregrip options?

Just the AFG?

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#5602496 - 02/16/15 02:25 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
tth_40 Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 13738
Loc: North Texas.
I still don't see how shouldering that brace constitutes a "redesign" when the physical properties of the stock remain unchanged.

That's like saying you've "redesigned" a screwdriver if you use it as a scraper.
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Originally Posted By: theserxtremedays
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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#5602502 - 02/16/15 02:28 PM Re: Just heard about this one [Re: huntandfish]
Tim9880 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 441
^^^ Which is why the ruling is so scary. Technically shooting your glock with a common two handed grip would constitute a "redesign" under this and make it an "aow," and you a criminal.

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