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#5587404 - 02/06/15 11:43 PM Over pressure
spg Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 903
Got into a interesting conversation with a reloader friend after he brought me some of his fired casing to deprime because he broke his dye. I noticed the primers had mild cratering and I asked him if he was aware he said yes thats how they have always looked. Then I told he's loading to hot and of course disagreed. Any of you load this hot and is it safe

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#5587415 - 02/07/15 12:08 AM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6197
Loc: Wise Co.
Cratering can appear for reasons other than excessively hot loads.
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#5587750 - 02/07/15 10:01 AM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
Capt Craig Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 339
Loc: Corsicana, Texas
There is no good reason to load hot. IF you can't get the round to do what you want, use a different caliber.
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#5587866 - 02/07/15 11:24 AM Re: Over pressure [Re: RiverRider]
dawaba Offline
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Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Cratering can appear for reasons other than excessively hot loads.


A loose fitting firing pin in the bolt face will cause cratering, even if the pressures are normal. Soft primer cups can too. Are there any other signs of excessive pressure?

If your friend's load is published and is producing the proper velocity for the cartridge, it's likely not over-pressured. Could you share the load and velocity he's getting?
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#5587918 - 02/07/15 12:19 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 903
Don't know the velocity.

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#5587938 - 02/07/15 12:32 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
kmon1 Online   content
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Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20282
Loc: Texas
Primers are often what are looked at for high pressure but with the different thicknesses and hard or soft primers it is not the most reliable indicator of pressure. But by the time some pressure signs start showing up pressures are already well above SAAMI Specs. Flattened, cratered, blown or loose primers do indicate pressure, but not totally reliable and sometimes can be just what gets you looking at what else could be the real cause. Shiny spots on the case base, case expansion, sticky bolt lift.... are generally all high pressure signs that you really do want to repeat IMO.

Lacking pressure test equipment which most of us do, a chronograph is one of the best indicators of where we should stop adding more powder to the case. There is a correlation of velocity and pressure and if velocity is high for the round so is pressure.

Excessive oil in the chamber, head space issue are a couple more that can cause primer cratering without excessive pressure.
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#5587959 - 02/07/15 12:46 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 903
I'm no expert but know if the primer is cratering the charge is to hot or the primer hole is partially restricted.

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#5588042 - 02/07/15 01:48 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: kmon1]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: kmon1
Primers are often what are looked at for high pressure but with the different thicknesses and hard or soft primers it is not the most reliable indicator of pressure. But by the time some pressure signs start showing up pressures are already well above SAAMI Specs. Flattened, cratered, blown or loose primers do indicate pressure, but not totally reliable and sometimes can be just what gets you looking at what else could be the real cause. Shiny spots on the case base, case expansion, sticky bolt lift.... are generally all high pressure signs that you really do want to repeat IMO.

Lacking pressure test equipment which most of us do, a chronograph is one of the best indicators of where we should stop adding more powder to the case. There is a correlation of velocity and pressure and if velocity is high for the round so is pressure.

Excessive oil in the chamber, head space issue are a couple more that can cause primer cratering without excessive pressure.


Wise man.
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#5589083 - 02/08/15 12:18 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
It also depends on which primer he is running. I don't look at the primer any longer as an indication of pressure. It does or can easily give you a false indicator of pressure. The bolt head and firing pin opening can make a primer look like a hot round when it's not. The 2 main things I look at are #1- sticky bolt lift and #2- shiny spots on the case head (from the bolt or the extractor). Next would be the chrono numbers, but not always.
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#5590323 - 02/09/15 08:37 AM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
DStroud Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1155
Loc: Waco
I had a Rem 700 17 rem that showed cratered primers no matter the load until I had Greg Tannel bush the firing pin NO more cratering.
Primers are not reliable indicators as above posters have said

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#5590356 - 02/09/15 09:04 AM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Had cratered primers in loads that were well below max on brass that was past its prime.
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#5591594 - 02/09/15 08:34 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
BigDad Online   content
Woodsman

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 181
Primer cratering is not a reliable indication of excessive pressure. I had a Model 70 in 270 WIN that always cratered primers even with light loads.
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#5594320 - 02/11/15 01:13 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: spg]
blackcoal Offline
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Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 7560
Loc: 60 Mi North of DFW
Not wishing to start an argument, and the above posts are correct in possible problems, did I miss where the OP said this was occurring with a bolt action?

Assuming there is actually excessive high pressure, another possibility could be in the depth of the bullet seating.

Another possibility no one has mentioned is the powder could have been below the minimum charge.
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#5594367 - 02/11/15 01:43 PM Re: Over pressure [Re: blackcoal]
redchevy Offline
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23348
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: blackcoal
Another possibility no one has mentioned is the powder could have been below the minimum charge.


Have also experienced this with starting loads.
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