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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Are e-collars necessary?
#5585402
02/06/15 02:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Play Maker
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I'm asking because I truly want to know. Are they part of every professional retriever trainer's tool bag? Are e-collars as common overseas (England/Ireland/Scotland) as they are here?
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5585470
02/06/15 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Fooshman
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I don't think they are necessary but they are a nice tool to have.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5585533
02/06/15 03:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
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maximumintensityretriever
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Your car isn't necessary but most if not all of us wouldn't dream of giving it up and walking.
No not every professional trainer uses an e collar, especially across the pond however I would venture a guess that the majority in North America do.
One last point, you can count on one hand the number of dogs that in the last 20 years have been trained to the highest level without the use of an e collar and/or force fetch.
It might be able to be done but the odds are not in your favor.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5585879
02/06/15 01:51 PM
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Play Maker
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Why is it that overseas trainers don't feel the need to use an e-collar but American trainers do? I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather gain insight into different training techniques.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: maximumintensityretriever]
#5585901
02/06/15 02:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
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Your car isn't necessary but most if not all of us wouldn't dream of giving it up and walking.
No not every professional trainer uses an e collar, especially across the pond however I would venture a guess that the majority in North America do.
One last point, you can count on one hand the number of dogs that in the last 20 years have been trained to the highest level without the use of an e collar and/or force fetch.
It might be able to be done but the odds are not in your favor. Can you name the last national champion trained without a collar? Robby
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5585913
02/06/15 02:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
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Why is it that overseas trainers don't feel the need to use an e-collar but American trainers do? I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather gain insight into different training techniques. Because the sport(field trials)/dogs have evolved differently in the US. Like comparing a sprinter to a marathon runner. Robby
Last edited by Birdhunter61; 02/06/15 02:14 PM.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5586028
02/06/15 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
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Professional trainers am guessing are on more of a time schedule so I think the shock collar helps speed the process up.
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5586044
02/06/15 03:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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E collars are a lot less stressful own the dogs than methods of the past, such as the whip and sometimes even the shotgun.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2017/07/full-3669-105539-full_16668_105507_image.jpg)
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Birdhunter61]
#5586582
02/06/15 08:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
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maximumintensityretriever
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Your car isn't necessary but most if not all of us wouldn't dream of giving it up and walking.
No not every professional trainer uses an e collar, especially across the pond however I would venture a guess that the majority in North America do.
One last point, you can count on one hand the number of dogs that in the last 20 years have been trained to the highest level without the use of an e collar and/or force fetch.
It might be able to be done but the odds are not in your favor. Can you name the last national champion trained without a collar? Robby No I can't. I don't even know if there is one. I just wanted to leave a margin because if I had said none had surely someone would have come up with a dog or two lol! The point is there ain't many, if any.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5586657
02/06/15 08:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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I'm not good at looking up old threads on this forum. I started one on this forum a few years ago called Before the e-collar. It was a first hand account of the training of a HOF pointer called Sport. A couple of the quotes were, "We took turns whipping. I drug him behind the horse with a CC."
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5586669
02/06/15 08:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Birdhunter61
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It would be pre- Rex Carr, I would think.
Robby
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: bill oxner]
#5586677
02/06/15 08:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
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I'm not good at looking up old threads on this forum. I started one on this forum a few years ago called Before the e-collar. It was a first hand account of the training of a HOF pointer called Sport. A couple of the quotes were, "We took turns whipping. I drug him behind the horse with a CC." And a 12 ga. With #9 Robby
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5586691
02/06/15 09:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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I just found the old thread. I bumped it to the top on the upland forum. I had deleted the scanned article, but you can get the drift.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: bill oxner]
#5586821
02/06/15 10:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514
maximumintensityretriever
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I just found the old thread. I bumped it to the top on the upland forum. I had deleted the scanned article, but you can get the drift. Yeah. The e collar is a cake walk compared to some of the stuff I've read about training in years past. I love it when people say they like Wolters because he doesn't use the collar. When he says "march out there and give him what for!" I guess people thing he means talk nicely to the dog!
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5586906
02/06/15 11:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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Why is it that overseas trainers don't feel the need to use an e-collar but American trainers do? I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather gain insight into different training techniques. You never got an argument on this topic. It was like singing to the choir, but its more valuable to the pointing dog trainers than it is to the retriever trainers. It's like a 300 yard check cord for pointing dogs. I was writing from that prospective. It seems to me that you could get a retriever to sit with you then run out and get the dead birds by puppy training alone.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5587483
02/07/15 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,875
blanked
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I think with retrievers compared to pointers its a different answer. Generally speaking with retrievers there is so much obedience training the dogs are closer working and being handled to a high degree the dogs are more in control at a close range by voice and whistle. This takes place of the ecollar. Now pointers can be anywhere from 50 yards out to 1 mile. Longer ranging dogs are handled much less than shorter range dogs so an e collar is the communication
Last edited by blanked; 02/07/15 12:27 PM.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5587892
02/07/15 05:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
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coolie
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No, they are not necessary, but few owners train their own dogs anymore. Some owners rarely even see their dogs out of season. Were there bird dogs before e-collars? How did they do it? They actually spent time with their dogs. A dog that knows you is more eager to please. We live in a world that needs instant gratification. The e-collar serves that need. But, it comes with a price, in my opinion. You get more of a machine than you do a dog. My best buddy took three years to get his Short Hair to hunt consistently. Most people wouldn't spend that much time on a dog. She started out gun shy. I don't mind dogs that make mistakes. Nothing replaces that feeling of accomplishment when one finally gets it.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: coolie]
#5587902
02/07/15 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
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No, they are not necessary, but few owners train their own dogs anymore. Some owners rarely even see their dogs out of season. Were there bird dogs before e-collars? How did they do it? They actually spent time with their dogs. A dog that knows you is more eager to please. We live in a world that needs instant gratification. The e-collar serves that need. But, it comes with a price, in my opinion. You get more of a machine than you do a dog. My best buddy took three years to get his Short Hair to hunt consistently. Most people wouldn't spend that much time on a dog. She started out gun shy. I don't mind dogs that make mistakes. Nothing replaces that feeling of accomplishment when one finally gets it. They shot their dogs with a gun, hit them, etc. Check out the other thread in what was done before shock collars. I think dogs live in the house with their owners now more then before.
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5587924
02/07/15 06:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,405
coolie
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I never shot a dog. I never beat a dog. The tone of your voice can do wonders. Dogs are much like little children. Not getting to play, and having to watch others play works also.  I know a few who never even try to get their dogs in shape before hunting. They are quick to electrocute their dogs, though.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5587930
02/07/15 06:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,405
coolie
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This is my 44th season. I'm old school. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Last edited by coolie; 02/07/15 06:28 PM.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: coolie]
#5587976
02/07/15 06:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514
maximumintensityretriever
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I never shot a dog. I never beat a dog. The tone of your voice can do wonders. Dogs are much like little children. Not getting to play, and having to watch others play works also. I know a few who never even try to get their dogs in shape before hunting. They are quick to electrocute their dogs, though. So we're out in a field talking after a morning hunting or training. My dog is wearing an e collar, yours is not. A deer runs through the field and both dogs prey drive kicks in. They are both chasing the deer towards a road where a truck is flying around a curve. You can go ahead and use your "dog voice" if you want. When we get done burying your dog I'll show you how to collar condition. It doesn't have to be broke to be more efficient or more reliable.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5588006
02/07/15 07:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,405
coolie
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I don't do hypotheticals. I'm 56 years old. In 44 years of hunting it's never come up.
I must be lucky!
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5588010
02/07/15 07:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,405
coolie
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I've had dogs point deer. I've had one mule deer doe almost knock me over. The dog never chased her.
Last edited by coolie; 02/07/15 07:41 PM.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5588013
02/07/15 07:22 PM
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coolie
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When we get done burying your dog I'll show you how to collar condition.
That's the thing about hypotheticals. You have it already happening in your mind.
I've had a few dogs that were collar trained. One wouldn't hunt right without his collar on. I found that very strange. Security blanket?
Last edited by coolie; 02/07/15 07:24 PM.
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Re: Are e-collars necessary?
[Re: Play Maker]
#5588048
02/07/15 07:53 PM
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kindall
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Most of the fields close to my home have high traffic roads that boarder them. Collar conditioning my pups allows me to exercise them in areas that I wouldn't feel comfortable with for years without it. My dogs like to run, and I like them to be able to a few days a week. I only have time to take them out of town a couple of days a week, and let them range out without the worry of traffic.
Just a personal choice each dog owner can make for themselves.
Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.
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