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#5585402 - 02/05/15 08:32 PM Are e-collars necessary?
Play Maker Offline
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Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1399
I'm asking because I truly want to know. Are they part of every professional retriever trainer's tool bag? Are e-collars as common overseas (England/Ireland/Scotland) as they are here?

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#5585470 - 02/05/15 09:04 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
Fooshman Online   content
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I don't think they are necessary but they are a nice tool to have.
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#5585533 - 02/05/15 09:50 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
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Registered: 04/16/13
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Your car isn't necessary but most if not all of us wouldn't dream of giving it up and walking.

No not every professional trainer uses an e collar, especially across the pond however I would venture a guess that the majority in North America do.

One last point, you can count on one hand the number of dogs that in the last 20 years have been trained to the highest level without the use of an e collar and/or force fetch.

It might be able to be done but the odds are not in your favor.
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#5585879 - 02/06/15 07:51 AM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
Play Maker Offline
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Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 1399
Why is it that overseas trainers don't feel the need to use an e-collar but American trainers do? I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather gain insight into different training techniques.

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#5585901 - 02/06/15 08:05 AM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: maximumintensityretriever]
Birdhunter61 Online   content
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Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 368
Originally Posted By: maximumintensityretriever
Your car isn't necessary but most if not all of us wouldn't dream of giving it up and walking.

No not every professional trainer uses an e collar, especially across the pond however I would venture a guess that the majority in North America do.

One last point, you can count on one hand the number of dogs that in the last 20 years have been trained to the highest level without the use of an e collar and/or force fetch.

It might be able to be done but the odds are not in your favor.


Can you name the last national champion trained without a collar?

Robby

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#5585913 - 02/06/15 08:09 AM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
Birdhunter61 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 368
Originally Posted By: Play Maker
Why is it that overseas trainers don't feel the need to use an e-collar but American trainers do? I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather gain insight into different training techniques.


Because the sport(field trials)/dogs have evolved differently in the US. Like comparing a sprinter to a marathon runner.

Robby


Edited by Birdhunter61 (02/06/15 08:14 AM)

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#5586028 - 02/06/15 08:53 AM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
MS1454 Offline
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Registered: 01/27/08
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Loc: Houston/Sealy
Professional trainers am guessing are on more of a time schedule so I think the shock collar helps speed the process up.
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#5586044 - 02/06/15 09:03 AM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
bill oxner Online   content
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E collars are a lot less stressful own the dogs than methods of the past, such as the whip and sometimes even the shotgun.
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#5586582 - 02/06/15 02:03 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Birdhunter61]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
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Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
Originally Posted By: maximumintensityretriever
Your car isn't necessary but most if not all of us wouldn't dream of giving it up and walking.

No not every professional trainer uses an e collar, especially across the pond however I would venture a guess that the majority in North America do.

One last point, you can count on one hand the number of dogs that in the last 20 years have been trained to the highest level without the use of an e collar and/or force fetch.

It might be able to be done but the odds are not in your favor.


Can you name the last national champion trained without a collar?

Robby


No I can't. I don't even know if there is one. I just wanted to leave a margin because if I had said none had surely someone would have come up with a dog or two lol! The point is there ain't many, if any.
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#5586657 - 02/06/15 02:47 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
bill oxner Online   content
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I'm not good at looking up old threads on this forum. I started one on this forum a few years ago called Before the e-collar. It was a first hand account of the training of a HOF pointer called Sport. A couple of the quotes were, "We took turns whipping. I drug him behind the horse with a CC."
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5586669 - 02/06/15 02:53 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
Birdhunter61 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 368
It would be pre- Rex Carr, I would think.

Robby

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#5586677 - 02/06/15 02:58 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: bill oxner]
Birdhunter61 Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 03/16/11
Posts: 368
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I'm not good at looking up old threads on this forum. I started one on this forum a few years ago called Before the e-collar. It was a first hand account of the training of a HOF pointer called Sport. A couple of the quotes were, "We took turns whipping. I drug him behind the horse with a CC."


And a 12 ga. With #9

Robby

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#5586691 - 02/06/15 03:05 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
bill oxner Online   content
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Registered: 11/03/09
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I just found the old thread. I bumped it to the top on the upland forum. I had deleted the scanned article, but you can get the drift.
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#5586821 - 02/06/15 04:38 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: bill oxner]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
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Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just found the old thread. I bumped it to the top on the upland forum. I had deleted the scanned article, but you can get the drift.


Yeah. The e collar is a cake walk compared to some of the stuff I've read about training in years past. I love it when people say they like Wolters because he doesn't use the collar. When he says "march out there and give him what for!" I guess people thing he means talk nicely to the dog!
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#5586906 - 02/06/15 05:42 PM Re: Are e-collars necessary? [Re: Play Maker]
bill oxner Online   content
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Registered: 11/03/09
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Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: Play Maker
Why is it that overseas trainers don't feel the need to use an e-collar but American trainers do? I'm not looking to start an argument, but rather gain insight into different training techniques.


You never got an argument on this topic. It was like singing to the choir, but its more valuable to the pointing dog trainers than it is to the retriever trainers. It's like a 300 yard check cord for pointing dogs. I was writing from that prospective. It seems to me that you could get a retriever to sit with you then run out and get the dead birds by puppy training alone.
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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