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#5584620 - 02/05/15 03:26 PM Form 1 sbr questions
huntandfish Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1677
Loc: Seclusion, tx
Im fixing to make a 300 blackout of mine to a sbr. Im going to send the barrel in to adco to have it cut down and threaded to 9". Any tips on the paperwork for those who have done the form 1? Im guessing one can still do the efile on the form 1? I just tried to look start the efile for form 1 and it said website down. Have a trust with four suppressors in it. Im guessing it is as simple as answering questions on form 1, attaching my trust to the system, paying for tax stamp then filling it. Am i missing anything. Then once i get the stamp, add it to my trust, then get the receiver engraved with the needed info. This is my first, so be easy on me, thanks for all and any info. I did the search online but would like to hear some more tips of those who have used the form 1 efile!

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#5584674 - 02/05/15 03:51 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Toxarch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
Get the lower engraved first. It's a lot less stressful sending off a regular lower vs. and NFA lower. And if something goes wrong with the engraving (spelling or damage or whatever), then you are stuck with it. It's not a problem at all to have the name engraved before applying for the tax stamp. So do that first.

Do not put "Multi" anywhere on the form. Pick a caliber (which you have). Mine (for 300 blackout) said caliber "300" (no decimal). OAL is with the stock extended.
When I did my Form 1 eFile, they had a maximum file size of 3 MB. Once scanned into pdf, my trust was a lot bigger than that and I didn't have a way to shrink it. So I broke it down into multiple files and numbered them. Worked out fine.
_________________________
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#5584680 - 02/05/15 03:52 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: Toxarch]
Varget 7-08 Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 4968
Loc: SA / Helotes, TX
Originally Posted By: Toxarch
Get the lower engraved first. It's a lot less stressful sending off a regular lower vs. and NFA lower. And if something goes wrong with the engraving (spelling or damage or whatever), then you are stuck with it. It's not a problem at all to have the name engraved before applying for the tax stamp. So do that first.

Do not put "Multi" anywhere on the form. Pick a caliber (which you have). Mine (for 300 blackout) said caliber "300" (no decimal). OAL is with the stock extended.
When I did my Form 1 eFile, they had a maximum file size of 3 MB. Once scanned into pdf, my trust was a lot bigger than that and I didn't have a way to shrink it. So I broke it down into multiple files and numbered them. Worked out fine.


Everything here is perfect advice.

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#5584688 - 02/05/15 03:55 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Toxarch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
Oh, and "applicant's name" is the Trust name and primary address.
_________________________
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#5584758 - 02/05/15 04:20 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: Toxarch]
Gemlin Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 420
You don't have to engrave the lower.

The ATF requirement is receiver, frame or barrel.

I engrave the barrel or the upper receiver on mine. That way if I ever want to sell the gun later as a title 1 gun, my info isnt on the lower.

Its the same rquirement for the importer, a lot of them engrave the barrel. If you replace the barrel later because of age, there is no requirement to engrave that barrel.

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#5584798 - 02/05/15 04:35 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Capt Craig Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 339
Loc: Corsicana, Texas

Don't possess the barrel in its shortened form with the receiver before the stamp comes back... I had my receiver engraved.
_________________________
Thanks - Capt. Craig


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#5584808 - 02/05/15 04:40 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Toxarch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
But with the lower engraved, you can just swap uppers to other calibers and be legal. So with one registered 300blk SBR, you can run a 9" 300blk, a 10" 5.56, and a 12" 6.8. And if you want to sell the complete upper for a different one, it's not an issue, just write a letter to the ATF if you are changing the primary barrel length. If you are selling the lower half, swap out the lower with a new stripped lower. Why lose your $200 tax stamp?
_________________________
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#5585118 - 02/05/15 06:55 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
huntandfish Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1677
Loc: Seclusion, tx
Thanks for all the info fellas, i will be doing the efile pretty soon!

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#5585775 - 02/06/15 06:25 AM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: Toxarch]
Gemlin Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 420
Originally Posted By: Toxarch
But with the lower engraved, you can just swap uppers to other calibers and be legal. So with one registered 300blk SBR, you can run a 9" 300blk, a 10" 5.56, and a 12" 6.8. And if you want to sell the complete upper for a different one, it's not an issue, just write a letter to the ATF if you are changing the primary barrel length. If you are selling the lower half, swap out the lower with a new stripped lower. Why lose your $200 tax stamp?


With the lower registered, you are allowed to temporarily swap uppers and you are still legal. If you shoot out your old barrel that is engraved, there is no requirement for you to engrave the new barrel as the lower is registered with the serial number. Nowhere on my Form 1's or my Form 4's has my "engraving info on it".

It has the original manufacturer, serial number and barel length. You dont lose your tax stamp, the tax is to register the firearm in your name. So long as it has an ATF control number on the document and a serial number on the gun your legal, as long as it the appropriate type of gun.

Just like if you get a FFL to import a firearm, you are required to engrave the same info on it and the same locations. But once its here, if you choose to repair a firearm and you elect not to put that info back on the gun its not against the law. The only thing you can not remove is the original serial number, that is spelled out in the firearm regs.

Before like 1990 or so the ATF even sent letters out saying you didnt have to engrave your existing title 1 gun if it had serial numbers. But about that time too many people started trying out their penmanship with the ATF and wrote them so many letters that they later said you should engrave it like an importer or a manufacturer who builds it from scratch.

There has not been one case where the ATF has procecutef someone for having a Form 1 or Form 4 item and not be engraved FYI.

Look at you line 4h on your form. Mine is blank on all my forms. If you have something there I'd agree you better have that engraved on your gun as it is documented to be on the firearm.

Maybe on all the new approved forms the ATF makes people fill that out but back when I did all mine you left it empty. I'd goto court and win as the ATF approved my forms without any additional engraving required on the firearm. Those forms are a legal document. (Again I chose to engrave a barrel because if I ever decided to cross state lines (with a 16" upper on it) or sell the gun, I change uppers and no one would ever know it was a SBR).

The crossing state lines thing is important because some out of state cops may see the engraving and rip your car apart looking for that upper that you left at home because SBRs are illegal in their state (if you get pulled over). Seen it happen to a buddy.


Edited by Gemlin (02/06/15 06:36 AM)

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#5586636 - 02/06/15 02:35 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: Gemlin]
Toxarch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
Originally Posted By: Gemlin
You dont lose your tax stamp,...

You do if you sell it which is what you said you might do.
And why would someone take an SBR lower out of state with a 16"+ upper? Just take a regular non-NFA lower for use with the upper. If you can afford an SBR stamp, and a rifle, and another 16" upper, and a trip out of state, you should be able to afford a $75 stripped lower to transfer all your stuff over or $160 for a complete lower.
_________________________
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#5586773 - 02/06/15 03:58 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: Toxarch]
Gemlin Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 420
Originally Posted By: Toxarch
Originally Posted By: Gemlin
You dont lose your tax stamp,...

You do if you sell it which is what you said you might do.
And why would someone take an SBR lower out of state with a 16"+ upper? Just take a regular non-NFA lower for use with the upper. If you can afford an SBR stamp, and a rifle, and another 16" upper, and a trip out of state, you should be able to afford a $75 stripped lower to transfer all your stuff over or $160 for a complete lower.


Your gun will eventually get sold or taken out of state. You will die someday and believe it or not your kids may not live in Your state or they may just want to sell it. Its a lot easier to sell a title 1 gun than a title 2 gun if you've never done it before. Only Machineguns, Destructive Devices, Some Aow's and Silencers can't be turned into Title 1 items.

Its a lot easier to sell and get a better price if the items do not have your info engraved on them. Selling a SBR or a SBS to someone is hard since anyone can make one and eform it in less than 30 days.

And I know several people who put all sorts of custom triggers into their SBRs (all their ARs are SBR), and do out of state rifle shoots. Sometimes the ATF doesnt get their 5820.20 back to them in time, so a 16" upper goes on the gun.

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#5586843 - 02/06/15 04:54 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Toxarch Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 1680
Loc: Parker County
No different than trying to sell a complete upper with an engraved barrel or engraved upper. Those get sold or traded more often than an engraved lower.
_________________________
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#5587770 - 02/07/15 10:11 AM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Capt Craig Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 339
Loc: Corsicana, Texas
We just had this discussion on another website. On a SBR, the receiver MUST be engraved if the owner is building the SBR himself on a Form 1. Engraving the barrel is does not meet the requirements for marking the maker of a SBR. The receiver is considered the firearm.

"I spoke with Mr Sanders at the ATF. If the SBR is registered on a form 1 then the name of the trust has to be inscribed on the receiver. I asked about the barrel and he said that the receiver by ATF rules is considered the firearm. If it's registered on a form 4 then no trust name is required."

When you say there has not been one case of a person being prosecute for not having it engraved, how do you know? The gentlemen that called the ATF to clarify didn't have his SBR engraved and they gave him 30 days to have it engraved and provide proof...

After going to the trouble of applying for and receiving a tax stamp on a SBR, why would you ever want to cancel it? You can by calling the ATF and inactivating the NFA portion by informing them you sold the upper and then the lower becomes a standard non-NFA weapon. OR you could just keep the lower and in the future if you want to have a SBR just put another upper on it and there would be no need to do additional anything.
_________________________
Thanks - Capt. Craig


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#5587790 - 02/07/15 10:22 AM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
Capt Craig Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 339
Loc: Corsicana, Texas
Gemlin, you might want to call the ATF and confirm for yourself, but They update the NFA rules all the time. Each of us is required to be compliant with the current rules/laws not just with the ones that were current when our original stamp was issued.

_________________________
Thanks - Capt. Craig


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#5588443 - 02/07/15 08:44 PM Re: Form 1 sbr questions [Re: huntandfish]
huntandfish Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 1677
Loc: Seclusion, tx
Filled out the form 1 with my ipad, then went to log in to the atf efile website on the big computer and it tells me I need a old version of internet explorer to work properly. Sure enough I cant even click the box to log in to download my dam trust! What a POS! it seems with the ipad I would have to download every page sepertaly, but the max number of downloads is 11, so no dice for that.

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