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#5575809 - 01/31/15 09:12 PM Power vs. Placement
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1725
Thought this was an interesting article that others might like.

From the Alaska Department of Fish and Game

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms

Firearms and Ammunition

There are no simple answers when it comes to selecting a firearm and accompanying ammunition. How accurately you shoot is far more important than the type of rifle, cartridge, and bullet you choose. Alaska has some very large game animals, including 1600-pound mature bull moose and 1500-pound coastal brown bears. Moose or brown bear hit in the gut with a large caliber magnum rifle such as the popular .338 Winchester® Magnum is wounded and just as likely to escape as if it had been hit with a small caliber rifle such as the .243 Winchester®. The bore size, bullet weight, and velocity are of secondary importance to precise bullet placement in the vital heart-lung area.

It is important for the hunter to have a good knowledge of game anatomy, the ability to correctly judge distance, the discipline to take only shots that can be made with certainty, and the ability to shoot accurately from sitting, kneeling, and standing positions. You should be able to reliably place a bullet in a circle the size of the game's heart/lung zone from hunting positions at the distances you expect to be shooting. As long as the caliber is reasonable and a quality bullet is used, hunters kill game quickly and humanely with precise bullet placement.

Select a quality bullet
Photo of ammunition
Winchester (left to right): Partition Gold® 7mm, .30-06, .300, .338, Fail Safe® .375
If you presently own a rifle chambered for the .270 Winchester, 7mm-08, .308 Winchester or .30-06 and can place all of your shots in an 8-inch circle out to 200 yards from a sitting or kneeling position you can be a successful Alaska hunter. To be as effective as possible, these cartridges should be loaded with premium quality bullets that are designed to pass completely through a large game animal, if hit in the heart-lung area.

Big Magnums Not Needed
The rifle you bring hunting should be one with which you are comfortable. Because of the presence of brown and grizzly bears, many hunters have been convinced that a .300, .338, .375, or .416 magnum is needed for personal protection and to take large Alaska game. This is simply not true. The recoil and noise of these large cartridges is unpleasant at best and plainly painful to many shooters. It is very difficult to concentrate on shot placement when your brain and body remembers the unpleasant recoil and noise which occurs when you pull the trigger on one of the big magnums.

The two most common complaints of professional Alaska guides are hunters who are not in good physical condition and hunters who cannot accurately shoot their rifles. Because these hunters do not practice enough they cannot shoot accurately enough. They miss their best chance at taking their dream animal or worse yet, they wound and lose an animal. Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06.

It is very popular now to purchase large magnum rifles equipped with a muzzle brake. Most muzzle brakes are very effective at reducing recoil. A .375 magnum with a muzzle brake recoils much like a .30-06. Before convincing yourself that you should use a muzzle-braked rifle, consider its disadvantages. A muzzle-brake increases the muzzle blast and noise to levels that quickly damage the ear. Even when just sighting in or practicing, everyone near you at the range will find the blast and noise bothersome. Anyone near the muzzle brake when the rifle is fired may suffer hearing loss or physical damage to the ear. You cannot wear ear protection when you are hunting and neither can your hunting partners or guide. An increasing number of guides will not allow a hunter to use a muzzle brake because of the danger of hearing loss.

Rifle Weight Reduces Recoil
Rather than rely on a muzzle-brake to reduce recoil, use a rifle heavy enough to reduce recoil. If you are planning on packing out moose meat, caribou meat, or a brown bear hide weighing hundreds of pounds, you can carry a 9- to 11-pound rifle including scope. A rifle of this weight in .300 or .338 magnum can be mastered with a lot of practice. You can also avoid using a muzzle-brake by selecting a cartridge that you can shoot comfortably and enjoy shooting enough to practice with frequently. For most hunters, the upper limit of recoil is the .30-06 or 7mm Remington Magnum®. A majority of hunters are more comfortable with a .308 or .270.

Recommended Type of Action
If you are choosing a rifle for hunting in Alaska, you should strongly consider a modern bolt action rifle made of stainless steel bedded in a synthetic stock. A bolt action is recommended because it is mechanically simple, can be partially disassembled in the field for cleaning, and is the most reliable action under poor weather conditions. Stainless steel is excellent for most Alaska hunting because it resists rust caused by rain or snow. However, stainless steel will rust with time so must be maintained after each day of field use.

Cartridge Selection
Alaska big game varies from the relatively small (deer, goats) to the largest game on the continent (brown bears, moose). In general, hunters should select a larger caliber for the largest game. Cover type should also play a role in cartridge selection. Sheep and goats are almost always hunted in the mountains where long distance visibility is the rule. A smaller, flat-shooting cartridge may be best here. Deer in the coastal forests of Southeast Alaska are often shot at less than 20 yards. Moose in the Interior may be shot at intermediate distances. Select your cartridge based on the expected circumstances.

Round-nosed versus Pointed Bullets
A high quality rifle bullet placed into the heart or lungs of a big game animal at approximately 2000 to 2800 feet per second will expand or "mushroom" and destroy the vital organs. The shape of the bullet has no direct effect on its function, its accuracy, or its ability to kill. A "round-nosed" bullet that penetrates and destroys a vital organ is just as effective as the most streamlined of bullets.

However, a pointed bullet does not lose velocity as quickly as a round-nosed bullet. For example, a .30-06 firing a 180-grain pointed bullet which leaves the barrel at 2700 feet per second, is travelling 2300 feet per second at 200 yards. In comparison, a round-nosed 180 grain bullet at the same speed will have slowed to 2000 feet per second at the same distance, because the pointed bullet can cut through the air with less resistance just like a sleek fighter jet. Under actual field conditions, this will make no difference between a good hit, bad hit, or miss. At distances beyond 200 yards, a pointed bullet will not drop as quickly as a round-nosed bullet. Most hunters should not shoot big game at distances further than 200 yards.

Bullet Quality versus Shape
Diagram of a Nosler Fail Safe Bullet.
Nosler Combined Technology
Fail Safe®
Diagram of a Nosler Partition.
Nosler Partition®
Diagram of Nosler Ballistic Tip.
Nosler Ballistic Tip®
Hunting


The bullet shape is not as important as the quality of the bullet and how well your rifle will shoot a particular bullet. Some rifles will shoot a pointed bullet more accurately and some will shoot a round-nosed bullet more accurately. You should try quality bullets of both shapes to find out which weight and shape produces greatest accuracy in your firearm.

A bullet must be "tough" enough to penetrate through skin, muscle, and even bone to reach the vital organs. It must also be "soft" enough to expand and disrupt the function of these vital organs. Throughout the history of bullet making, this has been the constant challenge—find the proper balance between "soft" and "tough."

Modern bullets are typically constructed from a copper or copper alloy "jacket" that surrounds a lead or lead alloy core, except at the very tip or "nose" of the bullet. Most conventional bullets have jackets that are thin near the nose and taper to a thicker diameter near the base. This method of construction is designed to control the rate of expansion, as the bullet will open or "mushroom" quickly toward the thin "nose" but will not "mushroom" as quickly near the base. Examples of this type of bullet are the Hornaday Interlock®, Speer Grand-Slam®, and Remington Core-Lokt®.

The advantage of these bullets is that they are relatively inexpensive and work well on most game animals at ranges from 50 to 200 yards. At typical velocities, these are excellent bullets for almost any game. One can say with high confidence that a big game animal hit in the heart-lung vital zone with one of these bullets will die swiftly and certainly.

Construction of Partitioned Bullets
The next step in bullet construction and bullet complexity is the "partitioned" bullet. These include the Nosler Partition®, the Swift A-Frame®, and the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw®. These bullets share a common feature; all of them have a tapered jacket that is "H" shaped (see picture). The cross-bar of the "H" is a part of the jacket itself. Each end of the "H" is filled with lead, a lead alloy, or tungsten alloy. These bullets are designed to expand quickly at the front but never expand below the cross-bar of the "H." In theory, this should be the best of both worlds: Excellent expansion to destroy tissue and a protected core that will ensure deep penetration.

Performance in the Field
The performance of partitioned bullets is excellent—they perform about as well in real life as in theory. If a moose, elk, caribou, or even brown bear is hit in the heart-lung vital area, these ultra-tough bullets often exit on the opposite side, leaving a better blood trail and ensuring a double-lung hit. The only negative of these premium bullets is cost. For example, a box of factory loads with Nosler®, Swift®, or Trophy Bonded® bullets typically costs at least twice as much as a box of conventional bullets.

To sum up on the subjects of firearm, cartridge, and ammunition selection: You can’t go wrong with a stainless steel bolt-action rifle chambered for a standard cartridge that you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately, loaded with a high quality bullet.

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#5575830 - 01/31/15 09:25 PM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
JRJ6 Offline
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Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 3899
Loc: Dallas, TX
That is great information. Thanks for sharing!

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#5575875 - 01/31/15 09:49 PM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
therock Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/22/11
Posts: 800
Loc: Southwest TX
Thanks for posting. Copied this one to keep.

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#5576027 - 02/01/15 03:48 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
Pitchfork Predator Offline
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Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 10873
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
Great read. Thanks for sharing. up
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#5576131 - 02/01/15 08:05 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11275
"The two most common complaints of professional Alaska guides are hunters who are not in good physical condition and hunters who cannot accurately shoot their rifles. Because these hunters do not practice enough they cannot shoot accurately enough. They miss their best chance at taking their dream animal or worse yet, they wound and lose an animal. Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."

Unfortunately, the deer hunting community has no shortage of "one shot wonders". It's the title I have given to guys who believe that just one or two shots before the season opener "to check their zero" is all the practice they ever require to harvest a deer. And yet, they remain determined to prove everyone else wrong by banding together and slapiing each other on the back after every miss or lost and wounded animal and saying "it happens to everyone."
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Spring, Texas

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#5576159 - 02/01/15 08:32 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19308
Loc: Corsicana
This was written as an unfortunate result of too many folks not being familiar with/proficient with their rifles. Unfortunately, this is all too often the case. It reads like it was written to someone who knows next to nothing about hunting and hunting rifles/cartridges.

But if one takes from it that the .270 or .30-06 is just as effective as a .300 or .338 for large game like elk, moose, or (certainly) the big bears, one would be mistaken. That is simply not the case.

The ideal for these animals is to become familiar and proficient with a larger caliber for large game.



Edited by Nogalus Prairie (02/01/15 08:35 AM)
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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#5576206 - 02/01/15 09:13 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 43790
Loc: Kingwood
....in a light rifle, with possibly a removable brake, with little concern of the cost of ammo since it'll be the cheapest part of the hunt.

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#5576233 - 02/01/15 09:34 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11275
The author's comments are not unlike those of other professional hunting guides who have written similar articles.

My experience has always been that when it comes to words of wisdom, the knowledge shared by those who "do it for a living" are most valuable for their accuracy.
_________________________
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Spring, Texas

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#5576253 - 02/01/15 09:51 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
rifleman Online   crying
Sparkly Pants

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 43790
Loc: Kingwood
Some yes, some no. Every profession is that way.

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#5576268 - 02/01/15 10:04 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
nsmike Offline
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Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 4219
Loc: MN
I like their definition of adequate field accuracy, '8 inches at 200 from a sitting or kneeling position', beyond that it's hunting to get a shot within your capabilities.
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#5576273 - 02/01/15 10:07 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: rifleman]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
popcorn
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#5576282 - 02/01/15 10:14 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: Texas Dan]
Simple Searcher Online   content
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Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 4158
Loc: Helotes, Hext
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
"The two most common complaints of professional Alaska guides are hunters who are not in good physical condition and hunters who cannot accurately shoot their rifles. Because these hunters do not practice enough they cannot shoot accurately enough. They miss their best chance at taking their dream animal or worse yet, they wound and lose an animal. Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."

Unfortunately, the deer hunting community has no shortage of "one shot wonders". It's the title I have given to guys who believe that just one or two shots before the season opener "to check their zero" is all the practice they ever require to harvest a deer. And yet, they remain determined to prove everyone else wrong by banding together and slapiing each other on the back after every miss or lost and wounded animal and saying "it happens to everyone."


Man I have seen that way too much.
And sitting with your rifle supported on both ends by a bunch of sandbags isn't practice for hunting.
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"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark

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#5576326 - 02/01/15 10:55 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: FiremanJG]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1725
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
popcorn


Sitting on the sidelines is not allowed on Super Sunday. smile

Originally Posted By: Simple Searcher

And sitting with your rifle supported on both ends by a bunch of sandbags isn't practice for hunting.


+1

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#5576341 - 02/01/15 11:02 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: jeffbird]
WileyCoyote Offline
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Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 4535
Loc: The Dogwood Capital of Texas
From an overall perspective I'd agree with most of the article, unfortunately not based on personal hands on experiemce, but from my personal interviews with large numbers of resident alaskan hunters, guides & the retailers that sell to them at Trade & Assc Shows & Dealer shows. FWIW the Eskimo natives kill more critters with IMO small dinky for game size calibers than not as subsistence hunters, that were a total surprise to me.

Other things that stand out to me in the article are.... the recc's to take 200 at max yard shots - cause most folks can't hit a KZ any farther than that 100% of the time... shooting from stable reliable classic field shooting positions that get you off the ground and out of the prone position - hard to shoot prone in knee/waist/chest high scrub ...using non magnum upper medium & medium Magnum calibers that the hunter is most familiar with using heavy for caliber bullets....and #2 on my List of Reasons when I bought a 9.3x62 in early '04 (when I was expecting a couple very large 6 figure insurance settlements from mulitple lawsuits) was hunting in Alaska, after going to Africa 1st.

The general 8" Kill Zone is no different than a WTail's either, or the need to learn and understand the anatomy differences in each game animal...kinda like hogs x WTails x exotics & think how hard it is supposed to be to reliably kill a running Nilgi, supposedly the most common shot taken.

so Yeah ...I could agree with most of this article, but then I was as familair with and could shoot a 300WMg in those days as easily as I did a 270

However, today I fit the " Out of shape " description waaay too much to even think about hunting over 3-5000' or where I have to walk more than mile or so on broken ground at 70.

I discovered AGAIN exactly how beat up & out of condition I really am... when I fell off the middle of a 3 high set of steps up to the back deck, when I missed a step coming down in a hurry by not paying attention last Monday nite and DID NOT bounce off the concrete patio as I always used to, needing to go get some pictures at the ER to see what all I felt had broke this time...nuthin showed to be broke... but I didn't get much sympathy from the Better Half when she had to cook the steak I was prepping the grill for before she drove me to the ER either. FWIW ...I walked IN to the ER from the truck...and 4 hours later could NOT walk out & took 3 days to get over it even with some "magic" pills. Can't do THAT in the Back Country or even take a chance on it.
Ron
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#5576374 - 02/01/15 11:21 AM Re: Power vs. Placement [Re: Texas Dan]
Hunt n Fish Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 12973
Loc: Azle,Tx /Hunt Jack Co.
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
"The two most common complaints of professional Alaska guides are hunters who are not in good physical condition and hunters who cannot accurately shoot their rifles. Because these hunters do not practice enough they cannot shoot accurately enough. They miss their best chance at taking their dream animal or worse yet, they wound and lose an animal. Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."

Unfortunately, the deer hunting community has no shortage of "one shot wonders". It's the title I have given to guys who believe that just one or two shots before the season opener "to check their zero" is all the practice they ever require to harvest a deer. And yet, they remain determined to prove everyone else wrong by banding together and slapiing each other on the back after every miss or lost and wounded animal and saying "it happens to everyone."


HnF likes this.......
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