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#5572875 - 01/30/15 08:43 AM some one give me some info on muzzle loaders.
bigbuckboy Online   happy
Tracker

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 774
Loc: arlington texas
I have never shot one more less than loaded one. Im wanting to pick one up for late season. I have heard cva are decent guns. Are they hard to load and unload. will I be able to shoot 150-200 yards give me some info thanks

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#5573024 - 01/30/15 09:51 AM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I have a TC Triumph 50 cal. with Weathershield that I bought from a friend. It has a speed breech that makes it easy to clean and unload. I can just take out the breech plug and push the load/bullet out the breech end. Shoots 209 primers and I use the Pioneer Pellets. It is very easy to clean with the Weathershield if shooting at the range. You can pull the breech plug and stick the barrel tip in the bucket of a little soapy water. Use the rod with a patch from the breech end pulling water into the barrel. Then take a dry patch to dry the barrel. I use 3-50grain pellets shooting a 250gr sabot slug. It will shoot a 3" group at 225 yrds. I will not shoot over 150 yds though with it unless I have a very good rest. It is a heavy setup with a scope. I bought mine so I could go on ML hunts in Kansas for Mule Deer and WT. I also use mine for the late ML season here for does and a buck if I have not killed one.
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#5573319 - 01/30/15 12:08 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 1856
Loc: Virginia, USA
Most of the new inline rifles have a breech plug that is easily removable which makes cleaning easy. Also, most take 150 grain loads and most guns have barrels that will shoot well out to 200 yds provided you can shoot well

I shoot a TC ProHunter. They are pricy but (1) I can interchange barrels, (20 has a 28" barrel which increases both range and velocity (versus a 26") and the stock has stock that reduces felt recoil (which works great). The TC triumph is a good rifle as well (see comment above)

I purchased a CVA for my son from Cabelas....has a breech plug you can remove by hand, shoots great and was an earlier model that had the Bergara barrel. It's a good gun and topped with a Nikon scope I can shoot 1" to 2" groups all day (150 gr of whitehots and 250 gr Barnes or Hornady bullets).


While I do not own one, Traditions makes a decent rifle as well..The Vortex is their high end offering. It has great reviews and all the features mentioned above.

I think you can find some good Tradition and CVA deals online in Cabelas Bargain Cave. I'd shop there first.

The thumbhole stock is a nice feature but not essential.

Whatever gun you buy, top it with a good scope and shoot sabots.....stay the hell away from PowerBelt bullets. They are horrible on game. Stay with the Barnes or Hornady and you'll do well.



Edited by TonyinVA (01/30/15 12:11 PM)

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#5574869 - 01/31/15 11:51 AM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
Stoney Offline


Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 7742
Loc: Bowie
I'm going to piggyback on this thread if that's OK. I always wanted to try a ML just for fun. I bought one yesterday from a member. It's a CVA in line .50 cal magnum. I got all the stuff, pellets, primers, bullets to start shooting. My question is how often and how do you clean one after you shoot it? I looked online and found about 50 different methods and opinions. I figured I would rather have some "home grown" advice from the folks here. I appreciate any tips or advice!
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#5575152 - 01/31/15 03:10 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: Stoney]
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 1856
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Stoney
I'm going to piggyback on this thread if that's OK. I always wanted to try a ML just for fun. I bought one yesterday from a member. It's a CVA in line .50 cal magnum. I got all the stuff, pellets, primers, bullets to start shooting. My question is how often and how do you clean one after you shoot it? I looked online and found about 50 different methods and opinions. I figured I would rather have some "home grown" advice from the folks here. I appreciate any tips or advice!


You will see a lot of opinions. Here is what I do and I consider myself primarily a muzzleloader hunter.

1. Sighting in - I sight in with a clean barrel and swap the barrel clean between shots. I do not do a fouling shot. think about it...when you hunt you load the gun and the barrel is clean...so you sight in like you hunt.

2. All guns are different with the load they shoot best with (powder & bullet). I like the hottest load my gun will shoot since I have no issue with 150 -200 yd shoots. I shoot 150 gr of whitehots (3 50 gr pellets) and a 250 grain Barnes tipped Expander Sabot bullet. Some people are very happy with 90 grs or 100grs...you need to find what your gun will shoot accurately and what you can deal with recoil wise.

3. Pellets vs Powder = up to you. Loose Powder burns better than pellets so you might get the same velocity with 125 grs of loose powder as with 3 50 gr pellets. I like the pellets for the convenience and my gun also likes them

4. What kind of powder or Pellets. Again..one of those things that are up to you. The Buckhorn 209 Powder is suppose to allows more shots between having to clean a barrel and they say it's a good powder. If you like loose powder it's worth checking out. On the Pellets I like Triple 7 and WhiteHots. I think the WhiteHots give a little more velocity and more consistent velocity. But It is not worth arguing over.

5. ALWAYS clean the gun after you shoot it and plan to put it away. Never store a dirty gun. I clean mine and then run a lightly oiled patch through the barrel before I store it.

6. When I take the gun out I always run a patch though (remove the oil) to clean the barrel and look through the barrel to make sure the oil and the breech plug is clear. Some folks fire a primer to make sure the hole is clear.....just be sure that you have an unloaded gun. I saw one guy do this in camp and he had a charge in the barrel. Made for an interesting evening.

7. The ONLY thing that touches the animal is the bullet...buy good bullets. Powebelts suck....stay with Barnes, Hornady or TC (which are made by Hornady) or another premium bullet and Sabot.

8. After the hunting day and your gun is still loaded you can store it inside if the weather was not too cold or damp...if it was REALLY cold I suggest storing the gun outside. If it was raining all day I suggest pulling the charge, cleaning the gun and reloading with a fresh charge. You want to avoid moisture building up. Nine times out of ten you can get away with just bring the gun in and it will fire the next day....BUT there is that one time. I don't take a chance as I may have paid big money to go on a guided hunt and I may have only one shot at that 160 plus free range deer. So making sure the charge is not going to be an issue is important to me.

9. Stay consistent in the way you load the gun and what you load it with.

10. I sight in dead on at 100 yds and I am 3"-4" low at 150 yards and about 10 inches low at 200 yds. My barrel is 28" and the load is 150 gr White Hots and a 250 gr Barnes Tipped Expander Sabot. BTW, in my gun the Barnes and Hornady bullets shot almost identically.



Edited by TonyinVA (01/31/15 09:42 PM)

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#5575634 - 01/31/15 07:43 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
bigbuckboy Online   happy
Tracker

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 774
Loc: arlington texas
alright I think I might get me a cva sight it in and practice on some hogs

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#5575734 - 01/31/15 08:32 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
Stoney Offline


Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 7742
Loc: Bowie
Thanks so much for the tips Tony! I sure appreciate it
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#5575842 - 01/31/15 09:30 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 1856
Loc: Virginia, USA
All of these deer (the past 3 years from Iowa) were shot at over 100 yards with 150 grains and a 250 gr Barnes tipped expander. Two of them dropped in their tracks (high shoulder shot) and one ran about 100yards (a heart shot) and I saw it drop as blood poured out like it was coming out of a hose. All dressed out close to 250 pounds.







Edited by TonyinVA (01/31/15 09:31 PM)

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#5575947 - 01/31/15 10:40 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
Stoney Offline


Registered: 05/05/09
Posts: 7742
Loc: Bowie
That's pretty darn impressive!
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#5576213 - 02/01/15 09:17 AM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: TonyinVA]
colt.45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 03/16/12
Posts: 9307
Loc: wondering about the woods
Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
All of these deer (the past 3 years from Iowa) were shot at over 100 yards with 150 grains and a 250 gr Barnes tipped expander. Two of them dropped in their tracks (high shoulder shot) and one ran about 100yards (a heart shot) and I saw it drop as blood poured out like it was coming out of a hose. All dressed out close to 250 pounds.






cheers coolpics Have done Muzzle Loader with my Kentucky .45 & Archery hunts in Minnesota. flag
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#5580350 - 02/03/15 01:47 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
colt.45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 03/16/12
Posts: 9307
Loc: wondering about the woods
popcorn great thread. cheers i'm not an expert. Maintanance plays a part. Even with the improved inlines & powder over the GOEX powder. Some times ya only get one shot with a muzzy. flag
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#5581099 - 02/03/15 09:29 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
texas python Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 02/07/14
Posts: 12
Loc: texas
I shoot the 245 gr. Power Belts with 100gr of Pyrodex and the doe I shot at 30 yrds dropped in her tracks. It went clean through. My buddy shot 1 with the same load and gun at 100 yrds quartering in, we recovered the bullet from her liver it was about the size of a nickel. It did shed most of its mass on the way there though.
We hunt in Texas where the deer aren't as big as up north so not sure on a bigger deer.
My buddy and I both have CVA Wolf rifles, with this load/bullet they group 1 1/2' at 100yrds. Not bad considering the price, my package rifle/scope combo was $300. out the door. you can find em on line for less but the shipping usually makes it a wash.
Good hunting and keep your powder dry.

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#5581628 - 02/04/15 08:51 AM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: texas python]
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 1856
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: texas python
I shoot the 245 gr. Power Belts with 100gr of Pyrodex and the doe I shot at 30 yrds dropped in her tracks. It went clean through. My buddy shot 1 with the same load and gun at 100 yrds quartering in, we recovered the bullet from her liver it was about the size of a nickel. It did shed most of its mass on the way there though.
We hunt in Texas where the deer aren't as big as up north so not sure on a bigger deer.
My buddy and I both have CVA Wolf rifles, with this load/bullet they group 1 1/2' at 100yrds. Not bad considering the price, my package rifle/scope combo was $300. out the door. you can find em on line for less but the shipping usually makes it a wash.
Good hunting and keep your powder dry.



As I said the Powerbelts are easy to load and accurate....but I stand by my original statement, they are not a good bullet for hunting and they are not powder charges designed to get maximum velocity for your gun. Hit a shoulder or any bone and you'll regret having used it. I have hunted big deer with a muzzleloader all over and seen lots of hunters. Most of the serious hunter know to stay away from the Powerbelt bullets. I am glad you had good luck with them, but like I said....I would NEVER recommend them.


Edited by TonyinVA (02/04/15 08:59 AM)

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#5581631 - 02/04/15 08:53 AM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: bigbuckboy]
TonyinVA Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 03/24/14
Posts: 1856
Loc: Virginia, USA

I share this authors view. It would be different if you are a traditional blackpowder hunter and want to shoot a side lock, etc and want a lead projectile. That's a whole different situation. But if you are shooting a modern inline and want the best range and performance....use a sabot and a premium bullet...not a PoweBelt.

Powerbelt Bullets By Randy Wakeman


Powerbelt bullets, manufactured by Big Bore Express, have been around for a long time now. They were known as "Black Belt Bullets," available in plain lead versions as well as with a thin copper-wash, as thin a copper plating as you may have seen on some .22 rimfire bullets.

CVA may offer some questionable guns, but what this Spanish owned importer does have an affinity for is loud, hyperbole driven marketing. CVA / BPI / Winchester Muzzleloading / New Frontier Muzzleloading rifles all come from the same inferior source. But "Powerbelt" bullets are made in Idaho.

Contrary to what the ads say about CVA Powerbelts, they are not the "most advanced" muzzleloading bullets. They are also not the "hardest hitting," nor do they have "all of the advantages of sabots."

The fact of the matter is, ballistically, bore sized projectiles are the very worst muzzleloading projectiles available. Comparing a .452 or .452 saboted pistol bullet to a "fifty caliber" bore-sized conical makes even the poorest pistol bullet look like a shooting powerhouse. It is fundamental that when comparing projectiles of similar weight and shape, the smaller caliber bullet is always superior in sectional density and almost always superior in ballistic coefficient. In other words, it flies better and penetrates deeper, losing less of its terminal striking force than a bore sized bullet.

Far from advanced, the Powerbelt is merely a pure lead conical. It is old wine in a new bottle, doing very little that the Minie balls of the Civil War did not do. The lighter versions do less.

Pure lead can be scratched with your fingernail; drop a Powerbelt and it easily dents. Powerbelts, like all lead conicals, shorten and belly out upon firing. Powerbelts shoot exactly the same whether the green hula hoop skirt is attached or detached.

They are simply slip fit conicals. Their sole benefit being that they need no messy lubrication of Crisco or other bullet lube, as the copper plating takes care of that. Unfortunately the better selling, lighter Powerbelts (245 and 295 grain) are the worst performers on game. The 348, 405, and 444 grain bullets are far more effective.

Powerbelts work best at moderate velocities and ranges. Doc White has extolled the virtues of heavy pure lead conicals for many years. What they do best is expand well at relatively low impact velocity, and they hardly need a hollow point (or a plastic "Aerotip" shoved into that hollow point) to initiate expansion. But, muzzleloading marketing being what it is, things seem to sell well if brightly and colorfully packaged--and you don't mind lying a bit.

Their primary benefit is easy loading. Otherwise, these overpriced and ballistically inferior slugs wouldn't have much sales appeal.

The 405 and 444 grain renditions are easily the better bullets, doing their best work with loose powder. Unfortunately, CVA barrels are not rated for bullets this heavy. It is unwise to use heavy conicals in a muzzleloader with an extruded barreled. They are better reserved for use in frontloaders with high quality barrels, such as Knight, Thompson, and Savage.

The facts speak for themselves. From any ballistic performance standpoint, Powerbelts make Hornady XTPs and Barnes MZ-Expanders in MMP sabots look like God's gift to muzzleloading. The day of the deer-crippling round ball has come and gone. Now, with the advent of Triple 7 and other high-energy propellants, the dismal trajectories of conicals means that their days as popular hunting projectiles are probably numbered.

It is only fair to note that, for "honey-hole" or "boiler room" shots on deer inside 120 yards, the 348 and 405 grain bullets have done well, and have given acceptable field accuracy in Austin & Halleck, Knight, and Savage muzzleloaders with 100 grains of T7 FFg loose powder. Where sabots are not an option, the 348 and 405 grain Powerbelts have a good track record when used within their limitations.










Edited by TonyinVA (02/04/15 08:58 AM)

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#5584144 - 02/05/15 12:01 PM Re: some one give me some info on muzzle loaders. [Re: TonyinVA]
hangfire Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 270
Loc: Jefferson county, Tx.



The 405 and 444 grain renditions are easily the better bullets, doing their best work with loose powder. Unfortunately, CVA barrels are not rated for bullets this heavy. It is unwise to use heavy conicals in a muzzleloader with an extruded barreled. They are better reserved for use in frontloaders with high quality barrels, such as Knight, Thompson, and Savage.



Good article and I don't disagree with anything about the Powerbelt bulets. I have read and heard of some trouble with barrels blowing up but that was several years past. I have never heard or thought about not using magnum loads with heavy (over 400gr) bullets.

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