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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: $500 scope?
[Re: 603Country]
#5571812
01/29/15 11:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Well, finally we agree. But I do have to say that you and a couple of others seem to think that holdover is nigh onto impossible to do well. That just isn't true at all, particularly if you've been doing it as long as NP and I have. It becomes instinctive and is very fast. The only real problems I had with it was when I switched from the 35 Rem to the 270 and my instinctive holdover was too much and I hit deer too high. Took forever to retrain myself. Ruined a lot of backstrap and caused a couple of misses on big bucks. And then when I moved to Texas and the deer and trees were smaller, I tended to overestimate distances...and shot high.
I think that a lot of my success was due to being a 'one gun hunter'. You really really get good with that rifle after years of use. Now that I have more rifles, with different MV and trajectories, my instinctive holds are not so good anymore. That's one of the reasons I went to the 100 grain bullet in the 260. It closely duplicates my 270 trajectory and I don't have to rethink my holdover. But when I see that mangy coyote trotting across the hayfield at 437 yards, if I don't have a BDC line for that, then the thinking (or the dialing) will have to start.
You long range guys are changing calibers and bullets and powders so often that it's no wonder that you guys need dope taped to the side of your gun and a turreted scope on top. Too darn complicated to do otherwise.
Hopefully the OP will come back and tell us what he bought. It's only fair for him to do that...seems to me.... NEVER have I suggested holdover is impossible! Heck I encourage practicing it, and I do practice it. In fact Chad and I had the discussion after the match. That both of us will practice pure holds on my range all the way out. That's 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, and 800. That's seven shots, each more difficult than the last and both of us try to do it in less than 60 seconds. When speed matters ya gotta know how to hold. But! if I have an extra second or two I'll dial elevation and hold wind. This past season I held elevation on one doe and two turkeys. So it is needed, no doubt. There is no instictive shooting for me. I know where the hold is and I have to put the reticle there. Hard numbers. I changed from a .260 that I cooked the barrel out of to a 6.5 Creedmoor. Same corrections for both, so I have the 260 and a 140 A-max memorized, as well as a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 140 A-max memorized. They are identical.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5571822
01/29/15 11:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 838
stxhunter
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 838 |
I've been watching this thread since it started. I must say I agree FiremanJK 100%. Not sure what is complicated about the mil dot reticle? 
Last edited by stxhunter; 01/30/15 12:38 AM.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: rifleman]
#5571898
01/30/15 12:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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You know you want to make some long pokes at pigs. Yup. And coyotes will bust ya. Same reason I shot one last week at 540. No way was I going to sneak up on one when both of us were in a winter wheat field.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: stxhunter]
#5571921
01/30/15 12:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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I've been watching this thread since it started. I must say I agree FiremanJK 100%. Not sure what is complicated about the mil dot reticle? First dot down is 1.0, then 2.0, then 3.0 ect. 200 yards .4 300 yards 1.0 400 yards 1.8 Thats 6.5 Creedmoor, 7-08, and a host of others. On a 308 Win add a tenth or two. Thanks for the photo!
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5572033
01/30/15 01:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I don't care what anybody does with pigs and coyotes. Conversely, since I don't care what happens to them I'm not about to spend any time learning about LR shooting for their sake.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5572052
01/30/15 01:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Clearly you have not the hatred I do for hogs.
To each his own.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5572074
01/30/15 01:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,708
603Country
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Let's go back 20 years and we don't have those dots and we have no exact range info. So there's the big buck and it looks to be about 350 or so. No hard data to be had and very little time to react. That's the way I grew up. After a while, you get good at it. A flat trajectory is a joy, which is why I sold the 35 lever gun. NP says keep it simple, and that's what I always did.
Not there's anything wrong with having range finders and mil dots. But how many hunters have the mil dots. Most everyone has a range finder now. And I have mil dots now too.
As for pigs and coyotes, I hate them with the same passion that Fireman does, so I do have a dog in that LR hunt. Small dog, but a dog nonetheless.
Last edited by 603Country; 01/30/15 01:55 AM.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: 603Country]
#5572088
01/30/15 02:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Why don't we go back a hundred and twenty years and have horses tied to the hitchin post?
Heck I could even have them tied to a steamer fire pumper and a Dalmation to run with them. That would be awesome!!!
I'm joking here. Don't get mad.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5572101
01/30/15 02:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I am willing to consider trying the mil dots-especially for open country hunting like antelope.
I hate yotes too. But at my place there's only about one spot where you might have a 500 yard shot at one anyway. So it's not a big issue for me. I don't hunt them I just shoot them. Same with the piggies. I killed 19 bowhunting. Don't usually shoot them out of my rifle blind simply because I don't want to mess up my deer hunting. Quite a few get whacked from the truck in the off season though.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5572120
01/30/15 02:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Best thing about hogs and coyotes. They're something to be on the look out for, and shoot all year long. Like I said before, you can borrow one of my scopes for a test drive. And SH 34 goes straight to Wolfe City. 
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5572150
01/30/15 02:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,424
jeffbird
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NP, If you come to Austin to visit your daughter, you are welcome to borrow my rifle to try the scope. Your daughter seemed to do ok with it - great actually.  Bring your setup and we will try them side by side at 200.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: jeffbird]
#5572165
01/30/15 02:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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NP, If you come to Austin to visit your daughter, you are welcome to borrow my rifle to try the scope. Your daughter seemed to do ok with it - great actually. Bring your setup and we will try them side by side at 200. Thanks Jeff. Shelby was with us during the whole Christmas break but is now back in "busy" mode again. 
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5572184
01/30/15 02:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523 |
If you can't look at a target of known approximate size at 400 yards with a duplex scope and estimate a 20-inch holdover, I just don't know what I'd tell you.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Kqs020H.jpg) "Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: $500 scope?
[Re: hookemhorns]
#5572265
01/30/15 03:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,394
booradley
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,394 |
I actually prefer German #4 reticles for most of my hunting. If not the #4 then a standard duplex.
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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