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#5566715 - 01/27/15 05:19 AM training a lab
river bottom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 58
What is the best book to use when training a lab? I'm getting my son a lab puppy Friday, and we are going to train it to retrieve ducks for us while hunting, any info would help, thanks

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#5566757 - 01/27/15 06:30 AM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Angie B Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 1429
Loc: Aubrey, TX
There are 2 programs that are popular and good. Total Retriever Training by Mike Lardy and Smartworks by Evan Graham. Go to their web-sites and look them over. See which one would work for you.

Good Luck!

Angie
_________________________
"Developing the Potential"
www.tiogaretrievers.com

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#5566770 - 01/27/15 06:54 AM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
river bottom Offline
Outdoorsman

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 58
Have you ever heard of water dog, and is it any good? Thanks

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#5567350 - 01/27/15 12:26 PM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Angie B Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 1429
Loc: Aubrey, TX
Water Dog is very out dated. The material I suggested is much more relevant.

Angie
_________________________
"Developing the Potential"
www.tiogaretrievers.com

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#5567672 - 01/27/15 03:29 PM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Listen to Angie, she know of what she speaks
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#5568105 - 01/27/15 07:10 PM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Pittstate Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 5177
Loc: NE/CO/KS/MO/OK
I used Water Dog and Ten Minute Retriever. My dog was on hand signals at 6 months. If you can dedicate 10 minutes a day for 90% of 6 months (164 days), you can have a well trained dog. There is a bond between a dog and its trainer that can't be duplicated.

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#5568126 - 01/27/15 07:28 PM Re: training a lab [Re: Pittstate]
Angie B Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 1429
Loc: Aubrey, TX
Water Dog doesn't address the E collar. That's important!!

Angie
_________________________
"Developing the Potential"
www.tiogaretrievers.com

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#5573721 - 01/30/15 04:20 PM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Can't trainem with treats

just my opinion
_________________________
"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Straight



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#5573994 - 01/30/15 06:53 PM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Pittstate Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 5177
Loc: NE/CO/KS/MO/OK
I am pretty sure that the new Water Dog DVD addresses the use of an E-Collar. If not, Ten Minute Retriever book did. The OP asked a question and I gave my opinion based on my experience that worked pretty good. I don't need an E-collar to get my dog to retrieve a duck. And, I don't need it to send her after the decoys after the hunt is over. And, I didn't need an E-collar to send my dog after the neighbors plastic toy that fell into the HOA canal. My dog will fetch almost anything I ask her to pick up (never not did it yet). She doesn't do this because I will shock her if she doesn't...She does it because 1) she loves to fetch 2)she knows it makes me happy 3)she is truly a part of our family. My dog sleeps with my daughter. She rides in the cab of the truck. She gets played with everyday. She has never been on a chain (check cord to train and leash for walks where required).

I did use an E-collar when it came time to learn hand signals, but only used the vibrate function to get my dogs attention. I don't think I needed to use it, but I believe it sped up the process of it learning my hand signals. Most people that train their own dog don't go for a "finished" dog (dog that works on hand signals).

I think it is a good idea to read more than one book(DVD) to get more than one point of view.

I am not trying to knock someone else's view or opinion here, just clarifying mine.

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#5574554 - 01/31/15 08:04 AM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
TXPride Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 1876
Loc: Lost
Bill Hillmann's approach is another great program. Just by following the "training a retriever puppy" video will produce better duck dogs than 85% of what's out there.

Check out some of his YouTube videos. His approach is different than traditional approaches and is proving effective with more and more dogs.

Key is balance of obedience and retrieving when training. I'm realizing that more and more.

http://www.billhillmann.net


Edited by TXPride (01/31/15 08:07 AM)
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#5574556 - 01/31/15 08:06 AM Re: training a lab [Re: Pittstate]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
Originally Posted By: Pittstate
I am pretty sure that the new Water Dog DVD addresses the use of an E-Collar. If not, Ten Minute Retriever book did. The OP asked a question and I gave my opinion based on my experience that worked pretty good. I don't need an E-collar to get my dog to retrieve a duck. And, I don't need it to send her after the decoys after the hunt is over. And, I didn't need an E-collar to send my dog after the neighbors plastic toy that fell into the HOA canal. My dog will fetch almost anything I ask her to pick up (never not did it yet). She doesn't do this because I will shock her if she doesn't...She does it because 1) she loves to fetch 2)she knows it makes me happy 3)she is truly a part of our family. My dog sleeps with my daughter. She rides in the cab of the truck. She gets played with everyday. She has never been on a chain (check cord to train and leash for walks where required).

I did use an E-collar when it came time to learn hand signals, but only used the vibrate function to get my dogs attention. I don't think I needed to use it, but I believe it sped up the process of it learning my hand signals. Most people that train their own dog don't go for a "finished" dog (dog that works on hand signals).

I think it is a good idea to read more than one book(DVD) to get more than one point of view.

I am not trying to knock someone else's view or opinion here, just clarifying mine.


You just unknowingly proved a point. You did find the use of an e collar a safe and effective means of providing instant feedback to your dog in order to better put a certain skill into your dog. Without even realizing it you were using the e collar (even in vibrate) to bring the principals of positive reinforcement, positive punishment, negative reinforcement, and negative punishment to the table for your dog which in turn helped him to learn the lesson both quicker and better than most other methods. Whether you used nick, continuous, or vibrate didn't matter. Of course none of this is explained in Wolters book but is explained in great depth in the other two programs that Angie recommended. How much more effective might you have been if you understood those principals prior to using the e collar to train your dog?
_________________________
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Maximum Intensity Retrievers
https://m.facebook.com/maximumintensity.retrievers
(903) 720-6842

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#5574589 - 01/31/15 08:26 AM Re: training a lab [Re: maximumintensityretriever]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Originally Posted By: maximumintensityretriever
Originally Posted By: Pittstate
I am pretty sure that the new Water Dog DVD addresses the use of an E-Collar. If not, Ten Minute Retriever book did. The OP asked a question and I gave my opinion based on my experience that worked pretty good. I don't need an E-collar to get my dog to retrieve a duck. And, I don't need it to send her after the decoys after the hunt is over. And, I didn't need an E-collar to send my dog after the neighbors plastic toy that fell into the HOA canal. My dog will fetch almost anything I ask her to pick up (never not did it yet). She doesn't do this because I will shock her if she doesn't...She does it because 1) she loves to fetch 2)she knows it makes me happy 3)she is truly a part of our family. My dog sleeps with my daughter. She rides in the cab of the truck. She gets played with everyday. She has never been on a chain (check cord to train and leash for walks where required).

I did use an E-collar when it came time to learn hand signals, but only used the vibrate function to get my dogs attention. I don't think I needed to use it, but I believe it sped up the process of it learning my hand signals. Most people that train their own dog don't go for a "finished" dog (dog that works on hand signals).

I think it is a good idea to read more than one book(DVD) to get more than one point of view.

I am not trying to knock someone else's view or opinion here, just clarifying mine.


You just unknowingly proved a point. You did find the use of an e collar a safe and effective means of providing instant feedback to your dog in order to better put a certain skill into your dog. Without even realizing it you were using the e collar (even in vibrate) to bring the principals of positive reinforcement, positive punishment, negative reinforcement, and negative punishment to the table for your dog which in turn helped him to learn the lesson both quicker and better than most other methods. Whether you used nick, continuous, or vibrate didn't matter. Of course none of this is explained in Wolters book but is explained in great depth in the other two programs that Angie recommended. How much more effective might you have been if you understood those principals prior to using the e collar to train your dog?


Well said and true. There is way more to using a E-collar which most do not understand.

If said dog is running a 200yd blind, a clicker, two tweets and a piece of hamburger won't get it done.

I'm sure there is a "super dog" somewhere that can do a back flip off a backyard swimming pool diving board and swim to the bottom and pick up a rock, without ecollar
_________________________
"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Straight



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#5574626 - 01/31/15 09:12 AM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Pittstate Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 5177
Loc: NE/CO/KS/MO/OK
If you are needing a dog to do a 200 yard blind retrieve, training is not your problem. I suggest learning how to shoot. Just saying.......

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#5574628 - 01/31/15 09:16 AM Re: training a lab [Re: river bottom]
Pittstate Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 5177
Loc: NE/CO/KS/MO/OK
I don't understand why people have to bash other peoples proven methods. I didn't bash anyone's book or method. I gave my experience on two books I read to train my dog. My dog turned out great, just like anyone else that uses the same books/puts in the time.

If your methods worked out, that is great. Post how well it worked and how well your dog works.

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#5574772 - 01/31/15 10:35 AM Re: training a lab [Re: Pittstate]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
Originally Posted By: Pittstate
If you are needing a dog to do a 200 yard blind retrieve, training is not your problem. I suggest learning how to shoot. Just saying.......


This is funny !!! And you are right about the bashing, sorry, right about the shooting too
_________________________
"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Straight



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