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#5561778 - 01/24/15 09:19 AM Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts?
Springster Offline


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 167
Loc: Conroe, Texas
Prior to season I decided to make a bullet move. I shoot a Ruger M77 in 25.06.
The following is the Barnes bullet:
Barnes Vor-TX 25-06 , 100 gr TTSX, 3225 FPS
3 times to the range prior to season. Drove tacks <1" groups. I thought I found my new bullet.
Gun season starts..... Llano County.
Opening weekend, decent buck. 115 yards. Good shot, hit, buckled, ran. Found hair, lots of blood. Blood trail for 45 yards, then nothing. Looked for hours. Never found him. Has never happened to me in 30 years of hunting. Came home, when back to the range. Still driving tacks.... Back to lease week of Thanksgiving. Same stand, same distance, cull buck steps out. This time I knock him down. I pack up my stuff, climb down. Deer is gone. What?? Yep, gone. Get down there. Pool of blood and hair everywhere. Solid blood trail for 50 yards. Then nothing. Looked for hours with no luck. Really frustrated at this point as you can imaging.
Came home. Broke out my Winchester ballistic silver tip's 115 gr. Back to range. Still dead on @ 100. Back to lease. Same stand again, same distance. Nice buck steps out. DRT! Didn't even flinch. Next day, DRT x2.

Any thoughts on this experience (besides stick with the Winchester)? Has anyone had a similar situation? All the reviews on this bullet are amazing, that's why I moved over to them. I'm ready for some expert opinions.......

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#5561849 - 01/24/15 10:14 AM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
JRJ6 Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 3899
Loc: Dallas, TX
I am not an expert but an average joe hunter.
I have used Barnes 150 grain in 30.06 to take multiple deer and hogs. Have not lost any and most don't go more than 10 yards. I am a big fan of the bullets. Not sure what is happening with your setup, but the bullets are lethal.

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#5562270 - 01/24/15 04:01 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Slow Drifter Offline


Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 4253
Loc: Central Texas
What made you change bullets? What velocity are the 115 silvertips? 3225 is pretty quick. I think you were punching through them without expansion or maybe suffering bullet separation. I'm certainly no expert, but I think in this case velocity is not being your friend.

edited to add: I'm not saying 3225 is too fast for that bullet, but maybe too fast for that range. I load my .257 WbyMag to similar velocities, but for use at tad further distances.


Edited by Slow Drifter (01/24/15 04:07 PM)
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#5562323 - 01/24/15 04:56 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20293
Loc: Texas
Just about everyone I hear about running Barnes bullets say run them fast for caliber. You are doing that so that isn't the problem.

I have only killed 2 critters with Barnes X bullets and they were the old X bullets pre coatings or TSX. One was DRT the other I watched it fall about 40 yards from where it was hit. I do think they do better if bone is hit such as leg or shoulder.
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#5562348 - 01/24/15 05:13 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Big Fitz Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2008
Loc: McKinney, TX
I have used the Barnes Vor-TX 160 gr in 7mm Rem Mag and have taken an elk (3 shots at 370 yards) and an Aoudad with 1 shot at 380 yards and was very happy with their performance. Of the deer that you lost with the Barnes, did you do a lung shot or did you hit bone? I ask as the info I have read indicates Barnes does not expand on soft tissue but works great if you hit bone. I've read just the opposite on the Ballistic Tips, they work great on soft tissue but tend to blow up on bone. The only deer I've ever lost was shot with a very hot loaded 100 gr Ballistic Tip in 25-06 and think it blew up on his shoulder. I am moving on to Accubond when I start reloading again.
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#5562522 - 01/24/15 07:28 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: JRJ6]
Springster Offline


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 167
Loc: Conroe, Texas
It's getting harder to find the Winchester Silver Tip Ballistic tips in 25.06. Read the reviews on the Barnes bullets and thought I'd take a run at it. Had plenty of the Winchesters to last me a year or two, simply wanted to give something else another run.

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#5562539 - 01/24/15 07:39 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Springster Offline


Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 167
Loc: Conroe, Texas
The frist shot I spoke about, the deer obviously had at least part of his sholder broken due to the way he ran. Maybe I didnt hit it solid. My typical shot is vitals behind the sholder on meat deer to prevent tearing the shoulder up. Different with a trophy where you want to bust the shoulder down. The Winchesters shoot @ 3000 FPS, slower, but doesn't seem like enough to make a difference. Maybe it's these smaller hill country deer. Both deer could have been just a soft tissue blow through with no bullet expansion. I've always had luck with balistic tips on these animals, could be due to the soft tissue and smaller animals. The balistic tips blow a hole out the other side that you can almost push a beer can through. Just reading the reviews on the Barnes, to me it was worth a try.... In 30 years of hunting I've never lost two animals with solid blood and it just goes dry.

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#5562619 - 01/24/15 08:42 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Slow Drifter Offline


Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 4253
Loc: Central Texas
Gotcha'. Yeah, it sucks when a bullet that works well goes out of or into limited production. I hope ya' get it figured out. I'd still try slowing them down a bit. I've got about a half dozen quarter bores and all but one gets best accuracy with warm, but not hot, loads. Best of luck to ya'!

edited to add: I did not intend to insinuate accuracy was the issue. Only that good accuracy can be had without pushing a load.


Edited by Slow Drifter (01/24/15 08:45 PM)
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#5563137 - 01/25/15 09:00 AM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Gladesgator Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 154
Loc: Cushing,Tx,
I am sorry to hear of the two lost deer and have no explanation as to why, even with minimal expansion, a bullet through the lungs or heart is a dead animal.

I have used Barnes bullets for many years in both my .270 Remington and .50 and .54 caliber Knight muzzle loaders. The bullets have taken scores of deer and hogs with no issues. If, animal was shot in the shoulders, DRT. If, shot behind the shoulder in the vitals have had animals go up to 50-70 yards, with blood within 15 yards of impact spot. I would suggest shoulder shots, as these bullets do not make them a total loss meat wise, as many bullets do such as Ballistic tips.

I prefer the bullet as it is almost always a pass thru creating an exit wound without massive meat destruction and bullet fragments in the meat. Only bullets recovered have been out of big hogs, all the bullets had perfect expansion and had not lost any of the four petals on the rifle bullets, or six petals on the muzzle loader bullets.

I have not seen any significant difference from the old X bullets to the "new" TSXs.

Good luck with whatever you do.

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#5563199 - 01/25/15 09:39 AM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19272
Loc: Corsicana
The TSX is an excellent bullet. But it is designed for toughness and low expansion. I much prefer two things different from your setup for deer: 1)a heavier bullet and 2)a bullet with more expansion (like a regular old cup and core bullet).

All that said, with proper shot placement there is no reason those deer were not dead within a reasonably short distance with that bullet. The TSX is a good bullet, and is an excellent choice when using a lighter weight bullet as you are.



Edited by Nogalus Prairie (01/25/15 09:41 AM)
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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#5563475 - 01/25/15 12:26 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
The solid copper bullets work differently than your standard lead bullets. The solid copper bullets have less hydrostatic shock than the same weight lead bullet does from the same cartridge. What does this mean? The actual wound channel will be smaller than a lead bullet. The solid copper bullet does not create the massive wound channel like the same weight lead bullet does. The benefit of the copper bullet is penetration. You will 99% of the time get an exit wound with the solid bullet. Lead bullets, no so much. Often times you recover the bullet or fragments of the bullet under the off-hand side of the skin. The lead bullet will expand more and create a larger hydrostatic shock wound channel. I have had numerous customers go away from the Barnes TSX bullets because of this. A lot of these customers go on big time hunts and shoot many animals. From my shooting and hunting experiences, I have seen the same thing. I won't use or recommend the solid bullets, unless you need the penetration, like for dangerous game and such. The solid bullets will expand, but leave a smaller exit wound, which will limit your blood lose on the ground.

So a shot behind the shoulder into the lungs will result in a dead deer. But the hydrostatic shock created is much less than a lead bullet, which allows the deer to run off. Sure, the deer went down somewhere, but maybe not close enough to find with a decent amount of blood trail.
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#5563510 - 01/25/15 12:43 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: ChadTRG42]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41102
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The solid copper bullets work differently than your standard lead bullets. The solid copper bullets have less hydrostatic shock than the same weight lead bullet does from the same cartridge. What does this mean? The actual wound channel will be smaller than a lead bullet. The solid copper bullet does not create the massive wound channel like the same weight lead bullet does. The benefit of the copper bullet is penetration. You will 99% of the time get an exit wound with the solid bullet. Lead bullets, no so much. Often times you recover the bullet or fragments of the bullet under the off-hand side of the skin. The lead bullet will expand more and create a larger hydrostatic shock wound channel. I have had numerous customers go away from the Barnes TSX bullets because of this. A lot of these customers go on big time hunts and shoot many animals. From my shooting and hunting experiences, I have seen the same thing. I won't use or recommend the solid bullets, unless you need the penetration, like for dangerous game and such. The solid bullets will expand, but leave a smaller exit wound, which will limit your blood lose on the ground.

So a shot behind the shoulder into the lungs will result in a dead deer. But the hydrostatic shock created is much less than a lead bullet, which allows the deer to run off. Sure, the deer went down somewhere, but maybe not close enough to find with a decent amount of blood trail.


While I agree with most of this their is a point of diminishing return on both. Barnes take advantage of speeds that most cup and core can't or borderline can't handle it.

With that said, 224-6mm, 220, 22-250, 243, 257wby etc make the bullet very effective in hydrostatic shock therapy

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#5563517 - 01/25/15 12:47 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Exactly. To make up for, or get more shock, you reduce the bullet weight and add the speed.
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#5563567 - 01/25/15 01:12 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: Springster]
Bbear Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/24/13
Posts: 596
Loc: West Texas
Tried them in 243, 25-06, 7mm-08, 30-06, 300 WM and 5.56. Tried all on whitetail and the 25-06, 243 and 7mm-08 on both axis does and smaller axis bucks. With the exception of the 243, all were straight pass-through with rather poor blood trails to follow. Lost 2 deer and 3 axis with the various flavors of Barnes. The 5.56 in the 50 gr and 55 gr both did a number on the little whitetails I've shot with them. None of the shots were over 100 yards. The 243 took one DRT that was a high shoulder shot that broke shoulders and the back with a clean pass through.
Chad has it right though, light-for-caliber is the better way to go. I, however, won't use them in the quarter-bore and larger guns I have. I have other bullets that perform more to my liking and to my experiences.

YMMV though.


Edited by Bbear (01/25/15 01:12 PM)
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#5563620 - 01/25/15 01:36 PM Re: Barnes Bullet Experience??? Thoughts? [Re: ChadTRG42]
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19272
Loc: Corsicana
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Exactly. To make up for, or get more shock, you reduce the bullet weight and add the speed.


With all due respect, that actually makes no sense. So a larger TSX produces little "hydrostatic shock" but a smaller one blitzing even faster does? I'm not buying it.

The reason the TSX and their ilk are better in itty-bitty bullets is because they at least hold together at speed and will thus always reach vitals-unlike many itty bitty lead core bullets (especially if bone is encountered). That said, the TSX will work fine to kill animals simply because a hole in the vitals will kill any animal in pretty short order no matter what projectile is used. A smaller hole may take a few more seconds to kill (and that can mean an extra 50-100 yards of tracking). This either can be no issue or a big issue, depending on where one is hunting.

All else being equal, bigger is always better when it comes to bullet weight and killing power.
(Many will ignore the "all else being equal" and go off on tangents like flat shooting, recoil, etc. smile )


Edited by Nogalus Prairie (01/25/15 01:40 PM)
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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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