Try out fire and utilize the ash instead of spending all that money to remove the underbrush... burn it and you will get so much more back in return.

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MELackey reminded me of something else. About 4 years ago at the advice of our biologist we began hinge-cutting our mesquite wherever possible rather than removing them completely. The theory was to provide better nesting cover for quail and turkey. We also started working on the raccoon numbers. Each year we have seen the turkey numbers improve, and the quail numbers hold steady. Last weekend there was a group of 16 gobblers running together.

Nav, we would love to do a controlled burn. But, the place is not cross-fenced so it's impossible to "rest" one area after burn unless we put up an electric fence or something. Still trying to work something out though as burns can be a powerful tool in our region.

Next year I plan to disc and fertilize a couple ~3acre plots. Will probably plant winter oats, but the fertilized ground should pop with spring forbes as well. [/quote]

I burned off my place each year, in different places. One year I may have burned 5 acres, the next year 10-20 acres in another spot. never had trouble with my cows being in the "burn", they kept the grass down and didn't mess with the forbes and new brush growth. I had x's fences, but didn't fence them out. Area doesn't need a "rest" IMO, works in the "wild" for eons..

TXAG hit it with brush piles. We've created a few small piles here and there. Old bed springs also make great spots for quail. We had several around when we bought the place, so we turned them into quail spots. Periodically throw a couple of coffee cans of milo into them. Mesquites get cut and the stumps sprayed.

For brush clearing we use a Bobcat with a tree shear and a D3. We3 burn the piles, but are reluctant to just light the brush. Don't want to take the chance on stressed oaks or pecans.

For the question about places with no cedars and the preference of game, we see more deer bedding down in the areas we've cleared some of the cedars and brush from under the oak stands. The deer seem to prefer bedding down in areas that provide a decent view around than in thick stuff.

That's the majority of leases! lol

Northern Edwards County, 223 ac, low fenced.

Land was raw when acquired.

Our plan consist of feeding 7 corn feeders year round. Use to be 9 but cut back. From Jan-Aug we mix the feeders with corn and protein 50%/50%. We have one protein feeder and fill it w/ straight protein during that timeframe. Keeping it full is a problem as our herd consists mainly of axis (>50%). Sept-Dec we fed straight corn.

We have two watering stations set up and been thinking about adding a third.

Salt and trace minerals blocks at both water stations as well.

Owned the property going on three years. First year whitetail numbers were low, but biologist suggested shooting 8 does and all cull bucks seen (whitetail) plus every exotic doe seen. In those years we have only taken cull and one trophy buck. Numbers have risen on cameras and sighting over the years to now start taking does in the coming year(s). Axis does are taken at every sighting. I shoot 5-8 a year, and the numbers seem to increase each season.

Tried food plots two years ago, ground is just too rocky to make a sizeable plot. Made two small plots and they were doing great. Herd of axis came thru and boom. Gone.

Cedar management is another thing that I will look into this coming year. The place is covered in cedar and in three years, it seems they have multiplied 5 fold, even in the drought. Oaks are stressed from the drought but are also covered/surrounded by cedar.

It depends on how hot the burn is. I've been burning this week when temps are low and ground moisture is extremely high. The biggest problem is keeping the grass lit. A little wind helps, but when it blows strong you hold a tight sphincter. Our grass burns and stops right at the cedar. It is an art to do successfully. Come spring, the turkey and deer will be all over the new growth.

The truth is only certain places can be effectively managed. Small acreage with lots of neighbors? Chances are any deer that has potential will be shot before they reach 3.

A trophy buck is one that reaches its maximum potential in relation to its genetics. So a Hill Country buck that reaches age 6 and scores 130 or 140 may be the best genetically that can be done with that deer herd. In South Texas a 6 year old buck with top end genetics may reach 170-180 plus if allowed to live long enough to grow that big. In either area a buck will not reach its potential if it is dead at age 3.

If the property is large enough then the number one management tool is age. You can manipulate the brush, feed all day long, etc. but if a buck is not allowed to reach their full potential then it is for naught. Age 6 or older seems to be the age bucks start to top out. Holding off on killing promising bucks is the single most difficult management technique to accomplish - human nature is to not be patient and talk yourself into shooting the deer before its prime because of the fear that someone else will kill it or it will die before the next season.

The second most important management tool is controlling the number of mouths to feed in relation to the amount of food available. The exact same concept is used when managing ponds for bass. There is only so much food available for the carrying capacity - so biologist will tell a pond owner to cull the numbers so there is more food available for fewer mouths. Same with deer - doe numbers control is critical.

Habitat management, feed, etc. are all very valuable and can enhance the results but again without age and population control the other stuff is a waste of time and money.

I mean good for animals that eat grass. Unless they are doing something to get forbs into the grassy areas, I don't see much for the deer to eat except the acorns when they are dropping.

Since I just read that recent research studies on cedar show that it does not suck large amounts of water out of the ground as recently believed, I'm not so sure of the benefit of getting rid of it to grow grass if you are trying to grow deer.

I started a thread about removing cedar to stop killing my oak trees and letting more grass grow. Where did you read about cedar NOT being a water hog?

There are many hits on this with google, but here is one:

http://www.plateauwildlife.com/seasons/spring2009.pdf

Basically says oak trees use more ground water than ashe juniper, and that neither one sucks water out of the limestone under them. Apparently, cedar traps and holds more rain water in its needles than oaks do on their leaves, and this trapped water is evaporated, keeping it from hitting the ground. I guess that would still be a reason to remove them. But, I know that deer spend the day in cedar, and only venture into open fields at dawn dusk (generally speaking). I'd certainly want to keep a lot of cedar on my place, if I had one.

Our place has some of the most impenetrable grass ive ever seen. Is thick and grows to 5-6 feet tall given adequate rain and forbes still grow up in it during the cool months, granted they grow better if you run the disk over the grass.

Across the road from my parents house is about a 200 acre costal field. Deer don't eat costal to my knowledge, but there are probably close to 100 deer in that field every evening eating, stuff grows in between.

Yes, I guess forbs grow in the grass because you do see deer in fields eating something, but I don't think I'd spend all the time and money required to remove cedar if I were trying to increase the size or health of the deer herd. The time might be better spent trying to grow more forbs in what fields and meadows you already have. Of course, clearing cedar from shooting lanes is another matter.