Not having a lease and having to hunt public, I want to get the most out of my muzzle loader as rifles are not allowed. I am currently shooting powerbelt bullets and powder pellets and the gun shots where it is aimed. So with that being said, should I just hunt it like it is or try to search for something to improve my odds. I have only ever shot at and killed one deer and dropped her in her tracks from about 75 yards.

Booner1,
I hate to be a buzz kill but I hate the thought of you or anyone else using Powerbelt bullets. They may be easy to load, but they really are a poor choice for game animals especially if you hit bone. I'd find a good sabot that your gun likes (I am partial to the 250 grain Barnes Tipped Expander Easy Load). They are very accurate and they have great muzzle velocity. I personally use 3 50gr pellets (WhiteHots but Tripple 7 are also great) in a TC ProHunter and get velocities of 2200 fps. I sight in at 100 yds and I am about 4 inches low at 150....and I have no problem taking a 200 yard shot.

Before anyone questions my post, 3 years ago while hunting out of state we had a big name TV celebrity in camp...one of his sponsors was Powerbelt. He and his wife were hunting using Powerbelt bullets. He shot two deer in the chest and never recovered either one. The Outfitter told him he was done hunting unless he switched bullets.... so he did and used the outfitters Barnes bullets. He killed his buck but in the recovery footage he made it sound like he was using the Powerbelts. His wife killed a deer with the powerbelts ...hardly any blood, no pass through...fortunately we had snow.

Do a lot of reading on the powerbelts..you will find a lot of "I love them" and "I hate them." There is no reason not to use a sabot and a premium bullet.

No buzz kill at all, hence the reason for my question. Since I have only actually shot one deer with this gun, I need to know things for better performance and such. This is going to be my go to weapon during gun season and any advantage that I can obtain is a plus. Powders, bullets, sabots and such are all something that I don't really have the experience with. As far as the mount of powder, I do not believe that my Traditions is a magnum muzzy so I will be restricted to no more than 100 grains. I am open to any and all suggestions at this point to help me better understand and have the best experience possible.

In most cases, public land hunting offers very few opportunities and I need to capitalize on the ones that I do get.

From my experience, and it is somewhat limited, I like the Harvester Scorpion PT Gold bullets with their crush rib sabots. I shoot them with a load of 110 gr of Blackhorn 209. My son and I both shoot the 300 gr bullet out of our Encore's and they are very accurate. We have had great terminal results on game also. They also make 240 and 260 gr versions that would be all you would need for deer.

Boomer, what is the gun?

I agree with TonyinVA, Powerbelts would be waayyy down on the list of bullet choices for me.

A sure deer killer is the 300 grain Hornady XTP in Harvester sabots. That bullet is well suited to guns with barrels that have a 1:28" rate of twist. Although I pretty much use only GOEX black powder these days, I have used Pyrodes RS loose powder in the past and got good accuracy with loads ranging from 75 to 95 grains, depending on what the gun likes. The XTPs have plenty of killing power out to 150 yards and pretty much guarantee a pass through on broadside shots.

Boomer1,
Check what your Traditions will handle load wise.....that said I'd try 100gr and 150 if the gun will handle 150 grs of powder...see which one your gun likes. I use my muzzleloader for 90% of my hunts since most of the areas I hunt are shotgun or muzzleloader only.

Are few other points:

1. Loose powder will always burn more completely/better than pellets....That said I use pellets because they are convenient and my TC ProHunter loves them. When I was shooting a Knight years ago the gun was rated for 100 grains. I had an elk hunt and spoke to the folks at Knight...they said the gun would handle 120 grains of loose powder. I used that load and a 300 gr Barnes Expander ...killed a huge bull pic below (point is you probably can shoot more than 100 grains)



2. I use WhiteHots because my outfitter in Iowa uses them and when I travel by plane you cannot bring that type of propellant. That said I have heard great things about the Buckhorn 209 and how it makes reloading after a shot easy (keeps the barrel cleaner than other propellants) so it may be worth looking at if you are going the loose powder route.

3. Harvester sabots are great......but the Barnes Easy Loads are about comparable. If I had to buy a sabot separately Harvester is the way to go.

4. The only thing that will touch the game is the bullet..... go with the best bullet you can get your gun to shoot accurately. Off a bench I can do clover leafs at 100 yards.

5. Shoot a lot.....at 50 yds...at 100 yds and at 150 yards. know what your gun/ammo will do...DO NOT rely on the ballistics on the box.

6. Invest in a good 3x9 variable scope. The Mikon BDC is what I use, but there are other good ones. Don't use a cheap scope.....at low light you will want the best optics you can get.

I have a Traditions Persuit XL in-line 209 primer gun with a Nikon 3 x 9 scope. Not top of the line by any means but it is all I have. My only other option would be my trusty 12 ga. with a slug barrel.

I bought the Powerbelt bullets because they are easy to load and the same for the powder pellets. I have some loose powder but haven't tried it yet. I just want to learn and research what will work best in my gun for my situation. A 200 yard shot could be possible where I will be hunting but I don't think that I should attempt one at that range until I learn what my rifle is capable of. I appreciate the input, as you all have more experience than I do.

Fully agree with Tony, especially the comment on shoot a lot and don't rely on the charts. I have the Nikon BDC scope and my real world range results are 3 aiming points off of where they should be from the ballistics tables. I just started hunting with a muzzy this year and they sure are fun. I am finding myself taking it on most of my hunts, not just the shotgun/muzzleloader only areas.

I have tried all sorts of combinations over the years... True, Powerbelts are easy to load and very accurate bullets- but by design their terminal performance is sketchy. If you are punching holes in paper- Powerbelts are fine...

Like the others above, I am a big fan of sabots, in particular, the T/C Mag Express Sabot with the 240gr or the 300gr XTP bullet. Those consistently print very tight groups if I brush and swab after every 5 or so shots.

As far as powder charges, I have used regular Pyrodex RS pellets, Triple Se7en pellets, Triple Se7en magnums, Triple Se7en FFg loose, and White Hot pellets. In my inline muzzleloader, I really do like using two White Hots. Very consistent, you don't have to swab between shots very often, and the velocity is up there with Triple Se7en. In my side lock T/C Tree Hawk, the Triple Se7en FFg is king, with a 95gr load and a 320gr T/C Maxi-Ball. It's a kicker, but that Maxi Ball is one heavy hitter!

Booner, Don't overlook the shotgun as an option. I bought a 20gauge shotgun barrel for my TC ProHunter and love it. Using a federal 20g 3" magnum 275gr Barnes tipped Expander I get great groups at 100 yds and have shot great out to 150 yds. The velocity is 1900 fps so it's comparable to most muzzleloaders. for your 12 gauge there are numerous slugs that are 300gr and have a velocity of 2000 fps. So the slug gun (I assume it has a rifled barrel) is an option.

Planning on making the slug gun my second weapon of choice, heck I might take them both when I go. I going to do some testing and see what I come up with for the M/L and the slugger. Going to try and get the best from hunting public in the coming season. Thank you all for your advice, I need all I can get.

Booner,
My bet is that you are going to see ALOT of variability with various brands of shotgun slugs. So try a few and see which one groups best with your gun.

I've been burning up the internet reading up on sabot type slugs and everyone claims to have the fastest, hardest hitting, flattest shooting, best expanding, best weight retention, take down power, blah, blah, blah. Obviously they can't all be the best, so I suppose I will buy and shoot most to see what my monster likes to eat the best. Should I try variations of 2 3/4" & 3"?

My Rifled barrel 835 (trophy slugster cantilever scoped with a 3-9x40 bushnell banner) likes the faster slugs AND slower sabots. I did test out the 2000fps Hornady and Winchesters this year and I can print about 2.5" at 100 with both. I do not consider them a 200yd option though. I think 125yds or maybe 150yds as a maximum on my slug gun. My inline muzzleloader can get me a little farther.

Scooter, The right slug barrel and ammo can get you out to 200 yds. I see it all the time in Iowa. That said, not all barrels/ammo will give you that range and most hunters do not shoot that well.

Man, my head is hurting and my eyes are bulging out from reading all of the data about sabot slugs but the only true test is going to be to shoot them and see where the best performance is. Then I need to take it to another level and actually shoot deer with them to witness their actual effectiveness on the game.

Booner,
The Remington AcuTips and Hornadys kill deer just fine and are proven on game. The Federal Trophy Cooper are also good.....if one of those shoots well out of your gun you are good to go.

I shoot Federal Premium 3" Magnum 20 gauge Barnes Tipped Expanders (275 gr and 1900 fps). Federal stopped making them and replaced them with their Trophy Copper. Fortunately I have about 25 rounds left before I need to find another sabot slug.

Muzzle loader shooting just like modern rifle. lots of varieties in ammo. tis not an exprert, inline tis modern compaired ta me side locks & the flints. thar be some posters that gone threw de head ackes an given some good tips ta give starting point. getting familiar with your rifle, target shooting & groups. will give ya starting point. with me side lock, me range tis bout 50yrds, for me, some of de posters could take same side lock & extend ta 75yrds use what ya have ta get idea of group, try it out on some hogs. if dont like performance, try different. best wishes. as pappy once said: keep your head held high & your powder dry Edit: reading origanil post again, sounds like what ya using did the trick. what public land ya hunt? try it out on some hogs.

There is nothing wrong with powerbelts. They work just fine if you keep them within their fps range. Muzzle loading bullets are designed to qork just like center fire are within certain power levels. Would you expect a 45colt bullet 800-1000 fps to work right if you loaded it in a 458 win.mag.or 22 hornet's in 22-250 Powerbelts are designed to be shot with heavy powder loads .we noticed on friend's inline that belt would blow out with right around 90 to 100 grns of 3F in his 45. He has shot several deer with powerbelts they always exited leaving large holes.

ya had chance ta hit public land? some great hog hunten took mine within few hours of arrival. hogs are their, if a none -expert like me can doit witj me bad spelen, u can too.

Going to start sighting and shooting in my 12 ga. slug barrel in the coming weeks. 24" barreled ported fully rifled 870 Remington topped with a 3 x 9 x 40 scope. I will try to post up some pics of the results with target and ammo type, only picked up Hornady 2 3/4" sabot slugs today. Touted to be 2000 fps at the muzzle and dead flat at 150, I would like the same sabot in a 3" to see what the difference might be. Will buy and test several others as well. Anyone who does shoot a slug gun, do you sight in with what you are going to hunt with or buy a little less expensive ammo to sight in and then fine tune with the killers? Burn through $60.00 bucks worth of sabot slugs will be hard to do just punching holes in paper but I guess I have to start somewhere. What distance should I start shooting at to make sure I am on the paper? Then what distance do you move yardage wise to shoot your next round? This is gonna be kinda like shooting my .257 Weatherby magnum, the shells are about $65.00 a box of 20 and every time I pull the trigger my mind says "there goes $3.50", lol.

I do not believe Hornady makes a 3" magnum slug but I may be mistaken.

As for sighting it in, that depends on where you are hunting.....if most of your shots are 100yrs plus or minus..then I'd sight in for 100yds and you'll be slightly high at 50yds and slightly low at 150yds. I am guessing you'll be 1" high at 50 yds and 4" low at 150 yds with a 100 yd sight in. A 150 yd zero is going to put you about 2" high at 50yds and 3" high at 100 yds. So either one of the sight ins will work.Remember you are using an 870 not a bolt action or a single shot like a prohunter. The 870 may not be that accurate at the longer ranges.... it's just the nature of the actions.

If most of you shots are going to be 150 yds or greater I'd be asking you why you are not using a center fire rifle. If it's because rifles are not allowed and you are primarily hunting agriculture fields or large open areas I'd think I might go with a scope that has a BDC reticle like a Nikon and still sight in for 100yds and have aiming points for the further yardages, but you could sight in for 150 yds if that is your preference.

Bottom line is you should probably sight in for a distance that you expect to hunt and also for what you and your gun are the most accurate at. I am guessing that's 100 yds even though the ammo says you can site in at 150 yds. I think the accuracy of the 870 at 100 yds and 150 yds may be what drives your decision.

Hope that helps.

I have to disagree... I have years of experience shooting muzzleloader and have been in camp with numerous outfitters that "see" what various muzzleloading projectiles do on game. I always ask about what the clients are using and the performance. So I am basing my opinion on the PowerBelts based on what I have seen as well as what outfitters and I have discussed.

I share this authors view. I want to add that it would be different if you are a traditional blackpowder hunter and want to shoot a side lock, etc and want a lead projectile. That's a whole different situation. But if you are shooting a modern inline and want the best range and performance....that means high velocities and flat trajectories..use a sabot and a premium bullet...not a PoweBelt.

Powerbelt Bullets By Randy Wakeman


Powerbelt bullets, manufactured by Big Bore Express, have been around for a long time now. They were known as "Black Belt Bullets," available in plain lead versions as well as with a thin copper-wash, as thin a copper plating as you may have seen on some .22 rimfire bullets.

CVA may offer some questionable guns, but what this Spanish owned importer does have an affinity for is loud, hyperbole driven marketing. CVA / BPI / Winchester Muzzleloading / New Frontier Muzzleloading rifles all come from the same inferior source. But "Powerbelt" bullets are made in Idaho.

Contrary to what the ads say about CVA Powerbelts, they are not the "most advanced" muzzleloading bullets. They are also not the "hardest hitting," nor do they have "all of the advantages of sabots."

The fact of the matter is, ballistically, bore sized projectiles are the very worst muzzleloading projectiles available. Comparing a .452 or .452 saboted pistol bullet to a "fifty caliber" bore-sized conical makes even the poorest pistol bullet look like a shooting powerhouse. It is fundamental that when comparing projectiles of similar weight and shape, the smaller caliber bullet is always superior in sectional density and almost always superior in ballistic coefficient. In other words, it flies better and penetrates deeper, losing less of its terminal striking force than a bore sized bullet.

Far from advanced, the Powerbelt is merely a pure lead conical. It is old wine in a new bottle, doing very little that the Minie balls of the Civil War did not do. The lighter versions do less.

Pure lead can be scratched with your fingernail; drop a Powerbelt and it easily dents. Powerbelts, like all lead conicals, shorten and belly out upon firing. Powerbelts shoot exactly the same whether the green hula hoop skirt is attached or detached.

They are simply slip fit conicals. Their sole benefit being that they need no messy lubrication of Crisco or other bullet lube, as the copper plating takes care of that. Unfortunately the better selling, lighter Powerbelts (245 and 295 grain) are the worst performers on game. The 348, 405, and 444 grain bullets are far more effective.

Powerbelts work best at moderate velocities and ranges. Doc White has extolled the virtues of heavy pure lead conicals for many years. What they do best is expand well at relatively low impact velocity, and they hardly need a hollow point (or a plastic "Aerotip" shoved into that hollow point) to initiate expansion. But, muzzleloading marketing being what it is, things seem to sell well if brightly and colorfully packaged--and you don't mind lying a bit.

Their primary benefit is easy loading. Otherwise, these overpriced and ballistically inferior slugs wouldn't have much sales appeal.

The 405 and 444 grain renditions are easily the better bullets, doing their best work with loose powder. Unfortunately, CVA barrels are not rated for bullets this heavy. It is unwise to use heavy conicals in a muzzleloader with an extruded barreled. They are better reserved for use in frontloaders with high quality barrels, such as Knight, Thompson, and Savage.

The facts speak for themselves. From any ballistic performance standpoint, Powerbelts make Hornady XTPs and Barnes MZ-Expanders in MMP sabots look like God's gift to muzzleloading. The day of the deer-crippling round ball has come and gone. Now, with the advent of Triple 7 and other high-energy propellants, the dismal trajectories of conicals means that their days as popular hunting projectiles are probably numbered.

It is only fair to note that, for "honey-hole" or "boiler room" shots on deer inside 120 yards, the 348 and 405 grain bullets have done well, and have given acceptable field accuracy in Austin & Halleck, Knight, and Savage muzzleloaders with 100 grains of T7 FFg loose powder. Where sabots are not an option, the 348 and 405 grain Powerbelts have a good track record when used within their limitations.

is the 870 remington 12ga. that your talking about in yesterdays post the muzzy your talking about im this post any ways, best wishes

my i'm postaddic at bottom of posts is missing?