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7mm Elk Bullet
#5534823
01/11/15 06:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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DStroud
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I am posting this to make sure I don't overlook a possible bullet choice.... the below post on the GMX Hornady is an example of one I had not considered but the 139gr(for 7mm) weight concerns me. I better add this. This past season bullets used 140gr Berger (not good) 160gr Sierra GK (not bad,no exits)162 SST's (none escaped but took multiple hits and no exits)and lastly 168gr Berger(killed two no exits both ran 400 yards before expiring) All shots were 375-600 yards. This is the scenario. You are shooting at an elk from 400 to 600 yards away that is in sparse dark timber across on the next mountain that is in a herd of 20-30 other Bull elk. You shoot the Bull and if lucky it falls or only goes a short distance. This happens most times by the way. But a couple of behind the shoulder solid hits the elk ran along with 30 others over the mountain and with no exit and no blood trail it makes for long long exhausting searches in tough conditions. Out of a dozen or so shot this past year all being as described two were never found and of course that's two too many. Maybe the shot's twern't as good as they looked and maybe they recovered?? I was just asked if there was a bullet/load combo I could load for 7mm that might give consistent exits to increase the odds of a better blood trail to follow. This is a family and before anyone suggests just get a 30/378 with 165gr Barnes etc there are women and children also shooting. The two rifle used this year a 7mm SAUM Rem model 7 and a 7mm Mag Remington Mountain rifle. I may try the 150gr Sciroccos as they have them locally and they look like they may be an option if they shoot good. I admit I tend to avoid Barnes as I normally don't get as good of accuracy. After a little research on the Scirocco they seem to be quite optimistic on their published BC's so while not a total deal killer that is a strike against them.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5534852
01/11/15 06:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
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I killed my elk with a broadside vitals shot from 200 yards. He took four steps and piled up. No exit wound.
That was with a 180 gr. Berger VLD Hunting. Berger says you meed a 1:9" twist to stabilize it. Now my load of 71.2 gr of Retumbo, on properly sized brass, is pushing them @ 3080 out of a 26" barrel.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: J.G.]
#5534903
01/11/15 06:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,625
DStroud
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I killed my elk with a broadside vitals shot from 200 yards. He took four steps and piled up. No exit wound.
That was with a 180 gr. Berger VLD Hunting. Berger says you meed a 1:9" twist to stabilize it. Now my load of 71.2 gr of Retumbo, on properly sized brass, is pushing them @ 3080 out of a 26" barrel. Yea I have a feeling not to many folks with much in the field experience shooting elk at those distances(including myself)as the 3 elk I shot this year were all under 125 yards and piled up nicely(all less than 10 yards)... I am using a 280 Remington with 168gr Classic Hunters 2920fps. I may not find and really don't expect to find the "perfect" bullet but I do want to narrow down to the best solution with a combination good BC good accuracy and deep penetration and that goes hand in hand with weight retention I would think.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5535012
01/11/15 07:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
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For what you described, I would try 160gr Accubonds or 150gr Siroccos. When I was hunting elk with a 7mmSTW the 160gr Partition was my bullet of choice and most likely still would be, but since you are wanting a high BC the ones above are perhaps better options.
The accubond was designed to fly like a Ballistic Tip and on game performance like a partition, from what I have seem they came real close to that.
Have seen 3 bulls killed with Siroccos ranges 200 to 400 yards roughly all exited. Those were 150gr from a 300RUM and exited. The 7mm 150 has a higher sectional density so would expect even better penetration.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5535216
01/11/15 08:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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I'd feel confident with bergers like FiremanJG mentioned or the two bonded options kmon1 recommend.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: kmon11]
#5535626
01/11/15 09:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Yup the Accubond would be a good one to try. I keep forgetting about it because it is so new. We have live animals to test bullets on, all year, in almost every county.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5535690
01/11/15 09:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
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Hate hogs but they do make for some fantastic bullet test media, pulled pork is pretty good also
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: J.G.]
#5535799
01/11/15 10:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,200
dawaba
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Of the seven bulls I've taken, three fell to the 7mm RM, two with the 160 NPT and one with the Barnes 140 TTSX. None of the elk required tracking; two stood in typical stricken fashion before falling over on their noses, and one was bedded and didn't arise. Of course a blood trail wasn't necessary, but all the bullets exited, IIRC.
In fact, all seven elk died within twenty yards, and the farthest shot was only 285 yards. My bullet choice for all elk hunting in North America would be the Nosler PT in the appropriate weight in whatever cartridge you choose. But I will say that I took my Roosevelt bull with the 165 AB out of the .300 WM, to my complete satisfaction.
I'm betting a partition would be plenty accurate on elk out to 400-600 yards, and the AB would certainly be so. And I know a NPT will leave an exit hole, for they "always expand and they always penetrate."
Where do you hunt elk? My seven were taken in NM AZ WY and CA.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: J.G.]
#5535810
01/11/15 10:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,200
dawaba
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Yup the Accubond would be a good one to try. I keep forgetting about it because it is so new. We have live animals to test bullets on, all year, in almost every county. Yup. A mature boar hog, with its armor plated shield, would make ideal test media for potential elk bullets.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5535818
01/11/15 10:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
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I'd give an accubond a try in 160gr. VLDs are just a disaster waiting to happen if they haven't slowed down enough. Watched 168s just blow craters in a mule deer this year and luckily there was a an expert tracker in the group with good instincts.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5535921
01/11/15 11:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
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160gr Accubonds will serve you well.
NRA Benefactor Life Member - Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry a firearm.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: dawaba]
#5535961
01/11/15 11:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Yup the Accubond would be a good one to try. I keep forgetting about it because it is so new. We have live animals to test bullets on, all year, in almost every county. Yup. A mature boar hog, with its armor plated shield, would make ideal test media for potential elk bullets. Yessir. Exactly what I was thinking.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: rifleman]
#5535968
01/11/15 11:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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I'd give an accubond a try in 160gr. VLDs are just a disaster waiting to happen if they haven't slowed down enough. Watched 168s just blow craters in a mule deer this year and luckily there was a an expert tracker in the group with good instincts. VLD's aren't meant to be pushed at ultra high velocities like most other cup and core bullets with the exception of the partition or A-frame. If kept under the 3000fps area they perform just fine.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5536379
01/12/15 02:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
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They had slowed down well below 3000 by impact. (Don't remember the exact range, but it was 500yd+/- initially and 900yd+/- on a follow-up shot hours later that rolled him down a hill, then a 40yd follow-up shot an hour later). They were used for what they were designed for and failed miserably.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5536432
01/12/15 02:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,273
boonee
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We load 180gr Barnes triple shock for our Elk loads, but we are shooting 300 Weatherby's.
Avenger Firearms 214-577-5818 avengerfirearms@gmail.com
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5536538
01/12/15 03:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Nosler ABs or Partitions, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frame. There are others but those will do.
A more important factor is getting closer than 400-600 yards.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 01/12/15 03:32 AM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5536608
01/12/15 03:34 AM
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DStroud
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Nosler ABs or Partitions, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frame. There are others but those will do.
A more important factor is getting closer than 400-600 yards. It can be done. Thanks for the bullet suggestions. As I noted I normally do get closer a lot closer as until this year all my Elk kills were with archery but I do completely understand the circumstances that prevent in most cases my friends family and comrade's from closing the distance much under 400 yards or so. If you are sitting on a mountain trying to shoot a specific bull out of a group of Elk on the opposite ridge and the timber and meadow between you and that specific Bull has 200 cow and calf Elk and a few more Bulls it's not as simple as one would think.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5536975
01/12/15 12:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
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Please heed the wisdom of the all knowing hunting guru Nogales Prairie. No one should go out prepared to make ethical kills at 400 yards. Because in reality that is unethical.
DStroud, I bet your rifle is too heavy to carry in the mountains, too. Don't worry, NP will let you know if you truely have a mountain rifle or not.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: J.G.]
#5536993
01/12/15 12:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
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dawaba
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Please heed the wisdom of the all knowing hunting guru Nogales Prairie. No one should go out prepared to make ethical kills at 400 yards. Because in reality that is unethical.
DStroud, I bet your rifle is too heavy to carry in the mountains, too. Don't worry, NP will let you know if you truely have a mountain rifle or not. If NGP is otherwise occupied or unavailable, you can take me. I'm full of advice too, just not as articulate. Or, just hire a guide/outfitter. If you shoot poorly at long range and your wounded game animal escapes, you will have to eat your tag and go home empty handed, as per the contract you signed. THAT will influence your decision-making even if your inner conscience doesn't.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: J.G.]
#5537039
01/12/15 01:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Nogalus Prairie
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Please heed the wisdom of the all knowing hunting guru Nogales Prairie. No one should go out prepared to make ethical kills at 400 yards. Because in reality that is unethical.
DStroud, I bet your rifle is too heavy to carry in the mountains, too. Don't worry, NP will let you know if you truely have a mountain rifle or not. Read my post. Just said range was an important factor. Pretty pedestrian observation really. I do note all these references to exhausting tracking jobs and wounded/lost game on these 400+ shots. It is not a coincidence.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 01/12/15 01:08 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5537078
01/12/15 01:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Maybe DStroud is a bada$$ behind a rifle. Or maybe he is an excellent tracker and/ or brings a Blue Lacey with him. In any case he asked aboiut a bullet and the rest of us are trying to help him with the bullet, not tell him how far he should be shooting it.
And it would be rude for us to take over his thread.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5537137
01/12/15 02:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Nosler partition. The only bullet I have shot in my 20 years of hunting that has never failed to expand/penetrate/or leave an exit wound. No animal I have ever hit has escaped or been hard to find in calibers from 223 rem to 300 weatherby.
My recommendation is a Nosler Partition.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: redchevy]
#5537189
01/12/15 02:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
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redchevy, you are consistent and reliable.
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: DStroud]
#5537207
01/12/15 02:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Just like a nosler partition They are spendy and probably not the best option for every circumstance, but when it comes to effectively killing critters I go for what works.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: 7mm Elk Bullet
[Re: J.G.]
#5537224
01/12/15 02:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
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DStroud
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Maybe DStroud is a bada$$ behind a rifle. Or maybe he is an excellent tracker and/ or brings a Blue Lacey with him. In any case he asked aboiut a bullet and the rest of us are trying to help him with the bullet, not tell him how far he should be shooting it.
And it would be rude for us to take over his thread. I can appreciate and understand concerns of shooting game at distance. I grew up in Mississippi and where I hunted 20-75 yards was a normal distance to shoot deer(most used shotguns). Growing up reading Jack O'Connor I have always been enthralled with the opportunity of hunting in wide open country and shooting game at longer distance. I have also learned reading is one thing ,doing is another. But with some good equipment and a little practice longer shots under certain situation can be ethically made. Here is a picture of rifles and the targets this past spring. Longest shot 998 yards shortest 615 yards. The 998 shot was a second shot hit only missing the first shot by 3-4 inches left due to wrong wind read.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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