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Re: Getting the most from my muzzy [Re: 1860.colt] #5584471 02/05/15 08:30 PM
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Booner1 Offline OP
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Colt, started off gaining some more knowledge about my muzzy cuz I have only ever hunted with it once and shot a doe. I related that my only other option was my trusty 12 ga. as another avenue to broaden my hunting experiences so some gave me a few pointers on it as well. I'm gonna try to harvest a deer with each this year since center fire rifles are not allowed. We just kinda flopped around on the 2 subjects.


Born to hunt and fish.
Re: Getting the most from my muzzy [Re: TonyinVA] #5584484 02/05/15 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: TonyinVA
Originally Posted By: Booner1
Going to start sighting and shooting in my 12 ga. slug barrel in the coming weeks. 24" barreled ported fully rifled 870 Remington topped with a 3 x 9 x 40 scope. I will try to post up some pics of the results with target and ammo type, only picked up Hornady 2 3/4" sabot slugs today. Touted to be 2000 fps at the muzzle and dead flat at 150, I would like the same sabot in a 3" to see what the difference might be. Will buy and test several others as well. Anyone who does shoot a slug gun, do you sight in with what you are going to hunt with or buy a little less expensive ammo to sight in and then fine tune with the killers? Burn through $60.00 bucks worth of sabot slugs will be hard to do just punching holes in paper but I guess I have to start somewhere. What distance should I start shooting at to make sure I am on the paper? Then what distance do you move yardage wise to shoot your next round? This is gonna be kinda like shooting my .257 Weatherby magnum, the shells are about $65.00 a box of 20 and every time I pull the trigger my mind says "there goes $3.50", lol.



I do not believe Hornady makes a 3" magnum slug but I may be mistaken.

As for sighting it in, that depends on where you are hunting.....if most of your shots are 100yrs plus or minus..then I'd sight in for 100yds and you'll be slightly high at 50yds and slightly low at 150yds. I am guessing you'll be 1" high at 50 yds and 4" low at 150 yds with a 100 yd sight in. A 150 yd zero is going to put you about 2" high at 50yds and 3" high at 100 yds. So either one of the sight ins will work.Remember you are using an 870 not a bolt action or a single shot like a prohunter. The 870 may not be that accurate at the longer ranges.... it's just the nature of the actions.

If most of you shots are going to be 150 yds or greater I'd be asking you why you are not using a center fire rifle. If it's because rifles are not allowed and you are primarily hunting agriculture fields or large open areas I'd think I might go with a scope that has a BDC reticle like a Nikon and still sight in for 100yds and have aiming points for the further yardages, but you could sight in for 150 yds if that is your preference.

Bottom line is you should probably sight in for a distance that you expect to hunt and also for what you and your gun are the most accurate at. I am guessing that's 100 yds even though the ammo says you can site in at 150 yds. I think the accuracy of the 870 at 100 yds and 150 yds may be what drives your decision.

Hope that helps.


Gonna give it a whirl until I find out what the remmy eats best and then set out on my quest this fall to get ole' mossback down on the ground. The area where I hunt has such diverse terrain that my shoots could be from 25 yds out to 250 yrds but I will have a handle on my limitations before I head out to the woods not wanting to take any marginal shots. Want to keep it in my efficient range.


Born to hunt and fish.
Re: Getting the most from my muzzy [Re: Booner1] #5584649 02/05/15 09:41 PM
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Bet you a coffee it likes the Rem AccuTips and after 100 yards the groups start to open up (basing that on the 870 action and the 24" barrel length.)

Re: Getting the most from my muzzy [Re: TonyinVA] #5587558 02/07/15 01:50 PM
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I have to disagree... I have years of experience shooting muzzleloader and have been in camp with numerous outfitters that "see" what various muzzleloading projectiles do on game. I always ask about what the clients are using and the performance. So I am basing my opinion on the PowerBelts based on what I have seen as well as what outfitters and I have discussed.

I share this authors view. I want to add that it would be different if you are a traditional blackpowder hunter and want to shoot a side lock, etc and want a lead projectile. That's a whole different situation. But if you are shooting a modern inline and want the best range and performance....that means high velocities and flat trajectories..use a sabot and a premium bullet...not a PoweBelt.

Powerbelt Bullets By Randy Wakeman


Powerbelt bullets, manufactured by Big Bore Express, have been around for a long time now. They were known as "Black Belt Bullets," available in plain lead versions as well as with a thin copper-wash, as thin a copper plating as you may have seen on some .22 rimfire bullets.

CVA may offer some questionable guns, but what this Spanish owned importer does have an affinity for is loud, hyperbole driven marketing. CVA / BPI / Winchester Muzzleloading / New Frontier Muzzleloading rifles all come from the same inferior source. But "Powerbelt" bullets are made in Idaho.

Contrary to what the ads say about CVA Powerbelts, they are not the "most advanced" muzzleloading bullets. They are also not the "hardest hitting," nor do they have "all of the advantages of sabots."

The fact of the matter is, ballistically, bore sized projectiles are the very worst muzzleloading projectiles available. Comparing a .452 or .452 saboted pistol bullet to a "fifty caliber" bore-sized conical makes even the poorest pistol bullet look like a shooting powerhouse. It is fundamental that when comparing projectiles of similar weight and shape, the smaller caliber bullet is always superior in sectional density and almost always superior in ballistic coefficient. In other words, it flies better and penetrates deeper, losing less of its terminal striking force than a bore sized bullet.

Far from advanced, the Powerbelt is merely a pure lead conical. It is old wine in a new bottle, doing very little that the Minie balls of the Civil War did not do. The lighter versions do less.

Pure lead can be scratched with your fingernail; drop a Powerbelt and it easily dents. Powerbelts, like all lead conicals, shorten and belly out upon firing. Powerbelts shoot exactly the same whether the green hula hoop skirt is attached or detached.

They are simply slip fit conicals. Their sole benefit being that they need no messy lubrication of Crisco or other bullet lube, as the copper plating takes care of that. Unfortunately the better selling, lighter Powerbelts (245 and 295 grain) are the worst performers on game. The 348, 405, and 444 grain bullets are far more effective.

Powerbelts work best at moderate velocities and ranges. Doc White has extolled the virtues of heavy pure lead conicals for many years. What they do best is expand well at relatively low impact velocity, and they hardly need a hollow point (or a plastic "Aerotip" shoved into that hollow point) to initiate expansion. But, muzzleloading marketing being what it is, things seem to sell well if brightly and colorfully packaged--and you don't mind lying a bit.

Their primary benefit is easy loading. Otherwise, these overpriced and ballistically inferior slugs wouldn't have much sales appeal.

The 405 and 444 grain renditions are easily the better bullets, doing their best work with loose powder. Unfortunately, CVA barrels are not rated for bullets this heavy. It is unwise to use heavy conicals in a muzzleloader with an extruded barreled. They are better reserved for use in frontloaders with high quality barrels, such as Knight, Thompson, and Savage.

The facts speak for themselves. From any ballistic performance standpoint, Powerbelts make Hornady XTPs and Barnes MZ-Expanders in MMP sabots look like God's gift to muzzleloading. The day of the deer-crippling round ball has come and gone. Now, with the advent of Triple 7 and other high-energy propellants, the dismal trajectories of conicals means that their days as popular hunting projectiles are probably numbered.

It is only fair to note that, for "honey-hole" or "boiler room" shots on deer inside 120 yards, the 348 and 405 grain bullets have done well, and have given acceptable field accuracy in Austin & Halleck, Knight, and Savage muzzleloaders with 100 grains of T7 FFg loose powder. Where sabots are not an option, the 348 and 405 grain Powerbelts have a good track record when used within their limitations.

[/quote]
deer crippling round balls now that's bs
its funny you disagree then you say the same i did about using them with their limitations (speed)

Last edited by whistler; 02/07/15 01:54 PM.

we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Re: Getting the most from my muzzy [Re: Booner1] #5587610 02/07/15 02:23 PM
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Whistler,

Read the original Post ...he wanted maximum performance (range and velocity ) out of his muzzleloader.... so the answer is simple a sabot with a premium bullet not a Powerbelt..or a conical or a round ball. He did not ask for a recommendation on a bullet that was easy to load and shoot with low velocities.

And as for the author of the article and his comment "The day of the deer-crippling round ball has come and gone." He was making a point about the history of muzzleloading...and he's probably right. That's why they went from round balls to conical bullets and then sabots.....accuracy and range. That's also why we have rifled barrels today.

And your comment about velocities ..that goes along with the Original Posters question....he wanted maximum performance. And I did not make the comment your are referring to on PowerBelts and the preferred velocities I believe that's what the author of the article said....just wanted to make that point clear.

So, keep shooting you PowerBelts ...glad you like them...they load easy.....and good luck to you.

And to be clear, I am not nocking anyone who is into traditional muzzleloading and wants to shoot loose black powder or cast their own bullets, etc. More power to them and they have my respect. But that's not why I shoot a muzzleloader. It is to hunt extended season and hunt areas with big deer and elk that are not open to other types of firearms...and in doing that I want to get the best performance I can out of my muzzleloader.

Last edited by TonyinVA; 02/07/15 04:14 PM.
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