Guys, I continue to see lots and lots of my fellow THF'rs post out on here looking for leases/ranches/land etc.. Got me thinking, "has hunting gotten to the point where persons are damn near desperate to find a piece of dirt to hunt on"? Personally, it really makes me feel bad to see where things have apparently gotten to. Since I haven't actively looked for a lease in 30+ years, do we think it's purely a case of supply vs. demand or something else? Have costs on avg. gotten so high that the avg. Joe is not able to justify the costs of leasing, are leases now much more restrictive than ever regarding family and guests having access, are leases just "shot out" and overly affected by surrounding hunting pressures that once we get on them and don't see many if any deer that we decide to leave in a short order of time, do we as leasees "jack up the opportunities - yes I know this does happen from time-time, do we tire with the landowner/lease manager or fellow hunters, etc? Like I said, I am both concerned and saddened by what I see as an increasing exclusive not inclusive lifelong activity and recreation that I'd never want to be without. What say the people of the THF?

I believe my thread says "I'm at the begging stage" does that say anything?

Yeah it really does Mag, and I am really sorry things haven't worked out recently for you. Just trying to objectively understand the causes for the obvious predicament we're trending on and see if collectively we can work through any of it as a group. And yes, I like to try and help others in working through obstacles and dilemmas. I don't require it but don't mind it either when offered to me.

Pricing for me is a big thing. Do I wish I could afford a 6gs lease? Not sure if those are better then the 800 dollar ones. I'm getting older, my health has diminished in the last couple of yrs. I am under ALOT of stress at work (detective). I want a place that even in the "off season" I can pack my bags and go kick rocks. Make sense?

Wife now hunts with me and we enjoy each others company (25 yrs married). Kids tag along at times. Lot's of restrictions with many leases on family etc. I don't want to have to purchase an RV to get on a lease.

I know I am asking for much

What do others of the THF think and more importantly, how can we change it or at least try to improve it?

There's no problem that I can see

Folks not willing to drive
Not willing to pay asking price
Want lease w easy deer harvest
Want lease close to home

Can't have your cake and eat it too

You left out having to buy a travel trailer or RV.

Cabo, you're probably right, ain't no problems around here. Unless you're looking for one that is..

I agree with cabo and a lot of your original post DQ. I think there is a multitude of reasons and problems.

Also, some people are so desperate, they take whatever comes along and then have a horrible experience. After the horrible experience, that was derived from desperation, they complain about leases.

Some people are like 7mag and looking for a special place. Most these places will have a waiting list and you pretty much have to know someone on the lease to even hear about the lease. Good leases are filled by friends and are never advertised.

Another issue I see is people complaining about the cost of leasing. I guess my expectations are different, but if I am looking for something special, I expect to pay a premium. Have year round access to a property, having full hunting rights, camping rights, don't have to work the land, etc and you don't want to spend over $1k?

But it is about the money...to me it is about priority. No one wants to spend it on hunting, but they will spend it on the big truck they don't need, 16 different guns they rarely shoot, an ATV that sits in the garage, etc. They pay three times the cost of these things than they did 15 years ago, but can't believe lease prices have gone up

I have no doubt finding a lease is tough, but it is even tougher if you you are searching with unrealistic expectations.

Land isn't cheap.

Why should leases be?

Like what you put here TXHNTR, lots of hard truth there!

This forum is growing by the thousands each year, and many are looking for a lease. So I think it looks like more and more are looking for a leases when it's really normal, JMO. But with being said, people still don't want to drive but a couple of hours from a metromess and or don't want to pay, to see or a chance at a nice buck.

I am on the other side of this. Years ago we used to lease out for hunting. It seemed as if when we leased the hunters thought that since they leased they owned the property for the year. We tried not to be in their way during the season but when you also run cattle, sheep and goats there were times during the season when it could not be helped. Then you had to hear about how you screwed up their hunting. Also had to hear about how a Hereford cow attacked them. How the sheep or goats screwed them up. Or how there all of a sudden were no deer. It seemed as though there was always something wrong with how we ran our ranch. Finally said the heck with it and started having people out to just hunt a deer. It has worked out great doing it this way. I usually have many of the same people out year after year. I can control the amount of deer I want taken. I can control the type of deer I want taken. I can do any work in the pasture I want when I want. Maybe this has happened to many other land owners and those places have been taken off the market. Also especially around this area a lot of places are being either sold or divided up and sold. Most new owners do not lease their property. They want the hunting for themselves. And this is a different world than it was back when we leased. Do you really know and can trust the people you lease to? All this is just my opinion and it probably don't mean squat.

I drive a $400 a month truck rather than a $800/month truck. Save $4800 a year by doing that. There is a good lease payment right there. I don't own a obscene amount of guns, high dollar optics or a bunch of gadgets


This is what I see a lot of. All their hunting lease money goes to truck/boat/cable/atv bills

You re referring to moaners , complainers , whiners
That for the most part can't afford to play in the first place
But have the biggest mouths and always at the ready to complain

I see a lot of those , friends included

Lots of truth to what don k has stated and if I were a land owner I would have to think twice before leasing to strangers. Having said that though, I have seen goats and cattle mess up a hunt more than once...especially goats. So if you take a hunters money, don't make it harder to have a good hunt. I have seen the time when cattle would be moved to another pasture/location. You cannot lump all hunters in the same category ie. those who have expensive trucks and atv's. There are good hunters out there who would respect the land and owners wishes but so many are not financially able to have a lease and in some cases not even a bad lease. Then most say it is supply and demand and it is only right to take the maximum dollar...and maybe it is. We pay $1,200. per hunter on 216 acres, drive 2 hours one way and it is just marginal hunting. We have installed water and electricity on the place for the travel trailers. We do have year round access and have great landowners to work with. I am not happy with the amount of deer we have but would have to think twice before I would give it up. I am surprised the forum is growing by the thousands. It seems to me there are fewer young people getting into hunting, especially if you take away the kids and grandkids of those who do hunt. I think the industry is going to price itself out of the business for most in the future. Just my 2 cents worth and I do really enjoy the forum. DQ Kid, I am glad you brought this subject up.

Just for fun, flip it to the other side...

When we first started leasing our place, it was $8k. No electricity, we hauled our water in a tank on a trailer and the deer were mediocre. 7 years later, through management, we increased the average score of a mature deer about 20%, ran a water line, brought power in, built two outhouses, one with running water, built a cleaning station, built a congregation shed with satellite TV, cleared roads, etc.

All the labor was done by lease members and 90% of the material was paid by lease memebers.

We systematically increased the value of the lease and have since seen the price more than quadruple. Every addition that we add has resulted in the betterment of the ranch and increase the market value of the lease. To stay, we have to pay a premium to enjoy our investment and hard work....

You are welcome sir, just seemed like a topic that needed some honest, heartfelt discussion.

<insert obligatory steak and golf joke here>

From what I have seen a lot of people that are looking for leases are looking for something that they aint going to find. They set their expectations way to high and their price point way too low.

Leases are easy to find. You just have to be open minded and not have a ton of requirements before you ever make the phone call.

Cant tell you how many times I see posting that go something like this:

"Looking for year round lease within 90 minutes of Dallas. Must be 1K+ acres have hogs, deer, dove, ducks, fishing, cabin, water, electricity, and no live stock. Need to be able to bring my kids and guests so they can shoot their share also while I only pay for one spot. Must have open stand policy because I am too lazy to put up my own stands so I will need to be able to hunt yours. Walk in cooler on site would be nice but not a must have. Not willing to pay more than $700 per gun either. Please call me at 972-XXX-XXXX because I just registered on this site today and don't plan on checking back in ever again. Thank you."

Ok........maybe they aren't that extreme but you get the point.

That's awesome that it has worked out for you. Great story. But were you confident that you would not lose the lease after paying for so many improvements with your own money on land that wasn't yours? Just wondering whether you had a long-term contract or something.

We did something similar and put a substantial amount into a camp one time at the owner's request in the form of permanent improvements with the promise of a long-term deal at a predetermined advantageous price. We were asked to pack after two seasons. I think that was the plan from the beginning.

I leased off and on (more on) from the late '80s until a few years ago. Lease prices have gone up substantially, yes, but it's due to several factors.

-Less land being leased, hence fewer quality leases
-Land amount is a constant thing and will never be greater than it is or ever has been
-Population growth, hence greater number of hunters
-Higher land prices/values
-Higher taxes and operation costs (partly related to above)
-Greater cost associated with risk and/or liability

Used to be finding a place was the easy part. Now it seems to be the most difficult and sadly I feel will lead to the ultimate demise of the activity.

that sounds about right

I, too, find it hard to believe that hunter numbers as a percentage of the population are increasing. Sure, the absolute population of the state is going up and so, perhaps, hunter numbers (in absolute terms) might be increasing, but I'd bet by very little.

I will concede this point to you, I often see some pretty unrealistic expectations from prospective hunters regarding the leases.