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#5527509 - 01/08/15 09:11 AM Maximum Target Range
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
To all you long range target shooters. If I loaded my own ammo for the following rifle, what would you estimate my maximum effective range to be.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/90809

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/273579/...=ProductFinding

http://swfa.com/Vortex-6-24x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44559.aspx
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#5527669 - 01/08/15 10:24 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Strongbad Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 02/04/10
Posts: 447
The M40 / A-5 style adjustable stock from B&C is a good stock for the money. The Viper PST is also a GREAT scope! I own both. However... a sporter weight 260 is not the way to go in my opinion. That's not to say you wont be able to get it to reach out there, but the barrel is going to heat up quick, which is going to screw consistency, which is what you absolutely need if you're going to shoot LR. Also the barrel channel on the A-5 is huge and that slim barrel will look goofy.

Assuming you're on a budget, and since you're looking at a 700, I'll stay with those parameters. Keep the B&C, keep the Viper PST, and switch the gun to something with a heavy barrel. Sadly, and I think it's stupid that it's this way, I don't believe Remington offers any heavy barreled 260's. Only a 264 Win Mag. Only other option would be a heavy barreled 308 and they have several. Otherwise you're going to be limited by their screwy configurations. Like a 243 with a twist that is too slow to run the bullets you need to shoot, and so forth.

They inlet that B&C for other actions. Are there any other platforms you might consider? You might be able to find one that comes with an A-5 style stock or similar, right out of the box.


Edited by Strongbad (01/08/15 10:25 AM)

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#5527691 - 01/08/15 10:34 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
The rifle with that twist will need H-4350 around 43.0 gr +/- pushing a 140 gr. A-max or a 140 gr. VLD around 2800 fps.

Skip that stock and look at what Manners Stocks has in stock right now. Manners makes a better stock, with great customer service. If you want an adjustable cheek get a Triad Tactical stock pack for $45

The scope will do a fine job, I have one just like it.

The bullet will be supersonic to 1450 yards +/- in a DA of 2000'. I have hit steel that far with it. It doesn't have enough energy to make me want to try a kill shot on anything bigger than a coyote that far, but it will ring steel that far.
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#5527748 - 01/08/15 10:57 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
I don't like questions like this, b/c it often boils down to the shooter. How far can a 260 shoot? 1K yards no problem. We've also taken it to a mile, but that's for show and tell. The distance depends on the shooter ability, the quality of the set-up of the rifle and having good, accurate ammo.
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#5527783 - 01/08/15 11:13 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
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Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
I want to know what the pros and cons are as the first two responses showed. I want the best I can get in the parameters I listed. Take the shooter out of the equation in this instance.
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#5527808 - 01/08/15 11:20 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
MER is based on many factors, and all you listed was a rifle, stock and scope. MER is technically based on how far the bullet stays supersonic. What bullet do you plan to shoot? How fast will it be going? The correct answer is about 1200-1500 yards. If you plug in the numbers at the link below, it will tell you your MER. I don't understand how you can "take the shooter out of the equation" b/c a rifle doesn't shoot itself. But what's the point of your post? What are you trying to learn or figure out?

http://www.mega.nu:8080/traj_dat.html
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#5527845 - 01/08/15 11:34 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
I have the goal of being able to hit steel targets at 1500 yards. I want to get a 20 caliber that can consistently do that and put a stock on it that has and adjustable butt and an adjustable cheek. I want the gun to be adjustable so that it fits me properly. I plan on getting that scope but I am open to gun and stock options. Enlighten me. For arguments sake, assume I am the best shooter in the world on one hand and on the other, I have never even seen a gun. That way you can cover both spectrum. I would say assume an average shooters ability but you would probably get in depth on, "what is average?" That's why I said take the shooter out of the equation. I want a 20 cal that is realistically capable.


Edited by Kung Fu Widgeon (01/08/15 11:37 AM)
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#5527917 - 01/08/15 11:59 AM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
If you want to go extreme range, i.e. beyond 1000 yards. I would move over to a long action. 6.5-06, 264 Win Mag, 280 A.I., 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag just to name a few.

This will come down to how much BC and MV do you have, and most importantly, your ability to judge wind and properly correct for it. You will also need a good weather station that adjusts your corrections based on station pressure giving you DA live. A Kestrel with Horus or Applied Ballistics, for instance. Before anyone suggests a $9 app, they are not near as relible as your hand held weather station. I have a good app, the Kestrel is better. It is very sophisticated, and takes a while to learn how to use it, but it is a necessary evil when dealing with that kind of distance. You will also have to figure out how to solve problems when you see a bullet splash and wonder why in the hell did it land there? All of this equates to lots of time behind the rifle in varying environmental conditions, and varying places on the map to shoot from.
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#5527948 - 01/08/15 12:06 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
Fireman, what would you recommend in a 264 win mag? I have a 300 win mag and I don't like to shoot it a lot. I wanted the 260 for less recoil. I will have to learn to read wind and all the other factors, hence why I said remove the shooter from the equation.
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#5528083 - 01/08/15 01:11 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
If I were set out to have a 264 Win Mag I would get a donor action, order a 6.5 mm barrel and have my smith chamber it as such. Other than that I don't know, off the top of my head, of a rifle that will do what you want it to do. To get good you need to shoot quite a bit and you can't be waiting on a sporter contour barrel to cool. Which would most likely be what you would find in an already produced rifle.

That leads to the new 26 Nosler. You may find the rifle, but I suspect it won't be easy to find one in the barrel contour you want. So you're back to building a custom rifle again.
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#5528905 - 01/08/15 07:13 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: FiremanJG]
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5514
Loc: DFW
"
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
If you want to go extreme range, i.e. beyond 1000 yards. I would move over to a long action. 6.5-06, 264 Win Mag, 280 A.I., 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag just to name a few.

This will come down to how much BC and MV do you have, and most importantly, your ability to judge wind and properly correct for it. You will also need a good weather station that adjusts your corrections based on station pressure giving you DA live. A Kestrel with Horus or Applied Ballistics, for instance. Before anyone suggests a $9 app, they are not near as relible as your hand held weather station. I have a good app, the Kestrel is better. It is very sophisticated, and takes a while to learn how to use it, but it is a necessary evil when dealing with that kind of distance. You will also have to figure out how to solve problems when you see a bullet splash and wonder why in the hell did it land there? All of this equates to lots of time behind the rifle in varying environmental conditions, and varying places on the map to shoot from.


My 6.5 Creedmoor has no problem with 1,200 yards but I can't speak for anything beyond that because that's the furthest I've tried. JG is right though...it ain't easy and good equipment definitely helps. The first 12 rounds I put down range were misses and I gotta admit I was beginning to have doubts but 3 of the last four have been hits. I do not have a kestrel but want one, it's just the one I want costs a lot and I simply haven't gotten my head around spending that much for it. Plus the range I shoot at has two weather stations and an airport pretty close to it that provides pretty good info. But even with that it's not easy.

I got on here and was peppering everyone with questions about a custom LR rifle and instead of three months it took me over a year before I actually got my rifle because the more I learned the more the rifle and optics changed. Everyone just kept telling me..."that's good to start with and after 6 mths you can upgrade"...upgrade? Really? So I just decided to wait and not waste money on something I would want to upgrade in 6 months.

Good luck hope you get what you want...and need.


Edited by Deerhunter61 (01/08/15 07:14 PM)

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#5529168 - 01/08/15 09:33 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Deerhunter61]
TXMikeMcC Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 503
I don't mean this in a "know it all" way, but since you're asking this question, I'd say 750. All the SPS rifles I've seen have been accurate beyond what you'd think, but the difference between 750 and 1k is massive regarding the shooter. Anybody can hammer 500-750 if they half know what they're doing; beyond that is shooter, and wind reading ability.

That combo will serve you well; learn on it.

Edit: I just read your goal; you won't reliably hit 1500 yard targets with a .260 on a factory action/barrel. Occasionally, after several shots you probably will, but not on command. If you want that, you'll need a custom action, a cut rifled barrel (bartlein, Kreiger, Brux, etc), a very light quality (jewell) trigger, a quality stock/optics, and intensive load development.

Basically, none of what you've listed would achieve what you're asking for with ease.

If it were me, I'd start with a Surgeon , or BAT, then put a barrel mentioned above in a 284 Win/284 Shehane, a McMillan, and a high-magnification NF on the thing, and do some load testing; a .260 will do it to 1k, but beyond that (and even slightly before) you'll want more.


Edited by Mike McCasland (01/08/15 09:46 PM)

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#5530313 - 01/09/15 12:49 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
So far my longest shot was 708 yards with a 25 wssm in a 5-10 crosswind. It was with a factory M70 coyote and my own handloads. I had a Mueller scope on it. Once I had my elevation figured it was pretty easy to hit the target. The only issue I had was trying to guess the wind good. I would think 1000 yards wouldnt be that much more difficult with the optics I listed and a half decent rifle with good handloads.


Edited by Kung Fu Widgeon (01/09/15 12:52 PM)
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#5530326 - 01/09/15 12:53 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
By the way I can afford a surgeon. I would like one though if you have one to donate to me. It would be a good tax right off.
_________________________
"I'm not happy to see you. That's just my Brucellosis acting up."

Dove:33
Blue Wing Teal:4
Redheads:6
Pintail:1
Scaup:1

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#5530349 - 01/09/15 01:00 PM Re: Maximum Target Range [Re: Kung Fu Widgeon]
Kung Fu Widgeon Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 1237
Loc: Blooming Grove
What about a heavy barreled rifle in 6.5x284 norma?


Edited by Kung Fu Widgeon (01/09/15 01:08 PM)
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