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Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5542580 01/14/15 06:52 PM
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Tony: If I am not mistaken, it was YOU who posted, and I quote "It ain't in the genes". You have also assumed a lot without knowing any of the facts related to how I hunt with my Lab.
For the record, when I hunt doves with Max, he has been trained to sit some distance from me and the shotgun is pointed skyward at doves, not anywhere near his ears. When he is in my deer blind he sleeps on the floor, the rifle is pointed out a window and most of the noise is OUTSIDE, again not anywhere near his ears (or mine).
As to your post above, the scenario you present about "my advice" to the O.P. is B.S. bs
As to ignorance, "If the shoe fits, wear it".

Last edited by DH 1; 01/15/15 02:31 PM. Reason: spelling errror
Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5542828 01/14/15 08:50 PM
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You must be in politics because you're real good at dodging questions. Its still on the table, what exactly is your advice to the OP on how he should intro his pup to the gun?


Tony Marshall
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Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5542944 01/14/15 09:27 PM
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I will say some dogs handle our (mine included) stupid mistakes better than others.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5543110 01/14/15 10:39 PM
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done the same thing with every dog I've trained and have yet to have an issue...........gonna need some space to do it.....get a partner with a shot gun and a handful of cheap shells and have them walk out a good 150-200 yards...far enough where the shot won't be loud at all.....get your pup on a leash and have plenty of ham/turkey/treats etc....every time your partner shoots give the pup praise and a treat.....have your partner walk in about 15-20 yards and shoot then repeat....if your pup is showing any kind of sign to not like the shot have your partner get further away and repeat (I have never had a pup get scared at these long distances).....eventually your partner will be standing right next to you shooting and the pup won't be worried about the shot at all....however this has always been the pups first time to hear a gun....not sure how it will work with a dog who is who is showing signs of being scared of a gun though

Last edited by GigEmAggies; 01/14/15 10:51 PM.

They're not looking for one thing right....they're looking for one thing wrong.


Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5544273 01/15/15 02:19 PM
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Tony: I did not offer a suggestion to the O.P., I simply posted a picture of my Lab and relayed how he was introduced to gunfire...but since you asked, here tis.
I believe that genetics have a great deal to do with a dogs predisposition to react to loud noises/gunfire. I become familiar with the bloodline of a pups parents, BEFORE I look at the pups. At age 4 weeks, I try to visit the pups and clap my hands to see which pups shy away and which pups come running to get my attention. Once I have a couple pups to choose from, I revisit them at seven weeks and try to hold them on their backs to see which one will struggle for a few minutes and then give up and which one will continue to struggle. The theory is the pup that will struggle, then give up is likely to be the one most "Trainable" and the one that continues to struggle will likely be the "Hardhead" and will be the most difficult to train. When the pup is three months old, I take him to my ranch and introduce him to gunfire (Shotgun at a distance). From there I bring him out for dove season and transistion him to rifle fire when deer season opens. I have never seen the need for cap pistols, firecrackers, blank pistols, etc. My dogs associate loud noises with fun and love, not misery or fright.
On the other hand, you advertise yourself as a professional dog trainer, yet you offered the suggestion to fire a 30-06 over the whelping box, throw the pups in ice cold water to find out if the could swim and use an E-Collar to see if they can handle pressure. Somehow, I do not see that as a PROFESSIONAL suggestion or response.
Max is a show ring Champion and a hunting companion..all I could ask for.
I am neither a politician or a question dodger, you decide if this answers all YOUR questions.

Bob

Last edited by DH 1; 01/15/15 02:45 PM.
Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5544358 01/15/15 03:01 PM
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On the other hand, you advertise yourself as a professional dog trainer, yet you offered the suggestion to fire a 30-06 over the whelping box, throw the pups in ice cold water to find out if the could swim and use an E-Collar to see if they can handle pressure.

I thought we all knew that part was a joke.
From the trainers I have met, nothing rubs them the wrong way more than a dog that's been made gun shy. It something that can effect the rest of the dogs life, and not easily fixed.
They get some of them to come around, but a good many don't.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5544375 01/15/15 03:09 PM
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Kindall: I "Get" the joke, somehow I do not see it as a professional response.

Bob

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: kindall] #5544383 01/15/15 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: kindall
On the other hand, you advertise yourself as a professional dog trainer, yet you offered the suggestion to fire a 30-06 over the whelping box, throw the pups in ice cold water to find out if the could swim and use an E-Collar to see if they can handle pressure.

I thought we all knew that part was a joke.
From the trainers I have met, nothing rubs them the wrong way more than a dog that's been made gun shy. It something that can effect the rest of the dogs life, and not easily fixed.
They get some of them to come around, but a good many don't.




Thank you Kindall. And to add to this, nothing fires us up more than someone offering ridiculous suggestions to a newbie that really wants to train his dog. Hence the smart [censored] reply and ensuing conversation.


Tony Marshall
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Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5544632 01/15/15 05:11 PM
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I started my dog with a kids cap gun, then used 12 ga primer blanks, .moved to a .22 blank gun, then light dove loads.

Always associating the noise with a retrieve. i didn't want a dog that simply was not gun shy, I want a dog that associates the bang with a retrieve.

Also when introducing gunfire not only did I start from small to big calibers but I started by standing a distance away from my dog and then gradually reducing the distance.

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5545258 01/15/15 10:18 PM
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I think genetics can play into some of it and then there are some unknown Q factors. Here's my story:
My brother had an English Springer Spaniel with champion show and field lines. My sister had a Golden that had pretty good AKC lines. Dogs pretty close in age and spent a lot of time together both in town (they lived a few blocks apart) and at our family place in the country. Both would fetch/retrieve and both loved to swim.
The golden never liked loud noises from very young, thunder would sometimes make him so nervous he would throw up, he would hide when a gun came out of a case.
The springer loved the sound of the gun and would chase/retrieve skeet.

The biggest difference between the two was the breed and bloodline. Go figure.

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5556096 01/21/15 07:47 PM
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First gunfire was at 4 months old from a 12 gauge with popper shells at over 100 yards away in conjunction with a live, shackled duck being thrown in the air. The dog was too excited about the duck it got to retrieve to even notice the rapport except that it was like the signal to go get the bird. This test was just to make sure it was worthwhile to dedicate the time and money to go through more training.

Ever since then gunshots are the signal that she gets to retrieve a bird. (as long as we don't miss)
We took a two month break until her adult teeth came in and went at it again.

Under 6 months old you should be working on obedience and building drive to retrieve.

At 7 months we finally introduced close gunfire. She was already trained to retrieve to hand dead birds or bumpers and heel, sit, etc...
I bought a half dozen live pigeons. Guys from the dog training club volunteered to help.
1. First bird I plucked the primary flight feathers and told the guys to miss. I started at about 100 yards behind the 3 shooters. They threw the bird and fired away from us.
--Retrieved to hand and excited about the live bird.

2. Moved to 60 yards or so and shot the next bird
-- Same retrieve

3. Moved to 40 yards (repeat)

4. Moved to 10 yards behind (repeat)

5. Stood adjacent to the guns and finished off the rest of the birds.

7 years and still loves to hunt.


Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5556190 01/21/15 08:23 PM
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I will probably never associate gun fire with game when introducing pups to gun fire. It has caused too many bad habit s and causes the dog to break at the shot.


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: MS1454] #5556558 01/21/15 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: MS1454
I will probably never associate gun fire with game when introducing pups to gun fire. It has caused too many bad habit s and causes the dog to break at the shot.



You say that like it's an absolute. Are the millions of dogs trained that way that don't bresk just the exception or what?

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5556570 01/21/15 11:48 PM
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I was only referring to my dog and my experience. If the dog doesn't break great no bad habits are going to formed or need fixing later. My limited experience has taught me that a dog with a good amount of prey drive is going to break.


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5556575 01/21/15 11:49 PM
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Their instinct is to retrieve game. The shot doesn't matter. I've seen dogs break when the ducks cup. (not mine)

Steady to shot is trained. This is regardless of how you introduce gunfire.


Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: TexasEd] #5556653 01/22/15 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: TexasEd
Their instinct is to retrieve game. The shot doesn't matter. I've seen dogs break when the ducks cup. (not mine)

Steady to shot is trained. This is regardless of how you introduce gunfire.
Dead on!


Bobby Barnett

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5598072 02/13/15 09:19 PM
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I've been busy and haven't introduced my Lab to gun fire yet, but I don't think that its going to be much of a problem though...when I was building my deerstands this year he was sleeping under my miter saw (literally) while I was cutting! lol

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: DoveMaster] #5599287 02/14/15 04:35 PM
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I have trained several labs. Many of the above comments are good advice. Start the dog young and at a distance. At a young age, you're not training the dog to be excited about guns yet. You're are simply getting them used to a loud noise. Work slowly and take small steps. Slap two 2x4's (6"-8" long) together at a distance several times while the pup eats. If you get no negative reaction, move closer the next time. Keep doing this until you can slap the boards over its head while eating without getting a reaction from the pup. Then introduce the gun fire at a distance. Put the dog in a kennel a 50 yds from you while shooting skeet or firing a gun at anything. Or let someone hold the pup at a distance while you're shooting. Do this several times to get the pup comfortable with the sound from a distance. Gradually move the pup closer to the gun. Often times, the sound won't bother them at all. If the pup wants to be next to you while shooting, let him. As with all traing, keep it fun for the dog.

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: CenTex] #5599400 02/14/15 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: CenTex
I have trained several labs. Many of the above comments are good advice. Start the dog young and at a distance. At a young age, you're not training the dog to be excited about guns yet. You're are simply getting them used to a loud noise. Work slowly and take small steps. Slap two 2x4's (6"-8" long) together at a distance several times while the pup eats. If you get no negative reaction, move closer the next time. Keep doing this until you can slap the boards over its head while eating without getting a reaction from the pup. Then introduce the gun fire at a distance. Put the dog in a kennel a 50 yds from you while shooting skeet or firing a gun at anything. Or let someone hold the pup at a distance while you're shooting. Do this several times to get the pup comfortable with the sound from a distance. Gradually move the pup closer to the gun. Often times, the sound won't bother them at all. If the pup wants to be next to you while shooting, let him. As with all traing, keep it fun for the dog.


Bingo. The object is to associate noise as, and with a good thing. Conditioning.

Re: Getting pup used to gun sound [Re: CenTex] #5626353 02/28/15 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: CenTex
I have trained several labs. Many of the above comments are good advice. Start the dog young and at a distance. At a young age, you're not training the dog to be excited about guns yet. You're are simply getting them used to a loud noise. Work slowly and take small steps. Slap two 2x4's (6"-8" long) together at a distance several times while the pup eats. If you get no negative reaction, move closer the next time. Keep doing this until you can slap the boards over its head while eating without getting a reaction from the pup. Then introduce the gun fire at a distance. Put the dog in a kennel a 50 yds from you while shooting skeet or firing a gun at anything. Or let someone hold the pup at a distance while you're shooting. Do this several times to get the pup comfortable with the sound from a distance. Gradually move the pup closer to the gun. Often times, the sound won't bother them at all. If the pup wants to be next to you while shooting, let him. As with all traing, keep it fun for the dog.

This is how I've done mine in the past and it worked out. I may have just been fortunate but I'm in the market for another pup after many years and this is one of my concerns so I'm taking this in.


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