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#5509685 - 12/30/14 09:01 PM Hip Dysplasia
fanatiquack Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 282
Loc: Dallas, TX
I bought a Lab December of 2012. He was born Jan 2012. He has turned up lame in hind leg after an amped up retrieve session.

I'm taking him to vet for X-ray...was hoping someone could recommend a good lab vet in Dallas.
Also, what is a normal expectation with regard to breeder I bought Dog from? Do I have any recourse?
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#5509717 - 12/30/14 09:13 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
Hold on there cowboy. Don't put the cart before the horse. You don't even know what it is yet. Most breeders that have a health gauarantee are going to want OFA or PennHip. Your dog is just now old enough to have hips evaluated. Since you purchased a pup a month before it was whelped surely you talked to the breeder about the sire and dam and also health guarantees. Pull out your paperwork but do not call the breeder until you are sure that this is even something he should be responsible for.
_________________________
Tony Marshall
Maximum Intensity Retrievers
https://m.facebook.com/maximumintensity.retrievers
(903) 720-6842

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#5509763 - 12/30/14 09:29 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: maximumintensityretriever]
dawaba Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
I would recommend Dr Geoff Bratton at Holt Vet Clinic near SMU. 214-361-2834. I taught him everything he knows. A good lameness work-up, with X-rays, should pinpoint your problem.
_________________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#5510268 - 12/31/14 09:18 AM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2702
Loc: Houston/Sealy
Did you sign a contract with the breeder? Probably no recourse unless you did.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.


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#5511050 - 12/31/14 03:47 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
ShotGunWillie Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 311
Dr. Ed Aycock, best in the business Lewisville

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#5511055 - 12/31/14 03:49 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
ShotGunWillie Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 311
By the way, I wouldn't contact the breeder stating bad hips if you have no idea what the cause is, could be multiple factors

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#5515401 - 01/02/15 12:38 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
colt45 Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 5386
Loc: bastrop county
you stated "amped up retrieve session" had you conditioned the dog before doing this?
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hold on Newt, we got a runaway

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#5523671 - 01/06/15 01:11 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
fanatiquack Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 282
Loc: Dallas, TX
Took the dog to Lon Hayes at Lovers Lane Animal Medical. He's connected to Big D and Lone Star retriever clubs. Took XRays. Dog has bad hips and arthritis. The dog is 3 this month. It is what it is. What ya'll would do...
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#5523677 - 01/06/15 01:14 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
That sucks. Did your breeder have any type of guarantee?
_________________________
Tony Marshall
Maximum Intensity Retrievers
https://m.facebook.com/maximumintensity.retrievers
(903) 720-6842

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#5524000 - 01/06/15 04:28 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
fanatiquack Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 282
Loc: Dallas, TX
My breeder has, what I believe to be, overly onerous stipulations. I have tried to carefully get my facts straight before anything else. I'm appealing to this forum for wisdom before I do anything or make any claims. These are the stipulations (italics mine):

Pups bred/whelped at BREEDER carry an OFA and CERF Guarantee. This covers any hereditary/genetic disorders that might prevent your BREEDER pup from having its Hips/Elbows certified by the OFA or his eyes by CERF.

If the dog (OP NOTE: now 36 months old) is with the original owner and has been x-rayed after 24 months and up to 26 months of age (animals older than 26 months of age are not covered by this Guarantee) and it fails to certify because of Hip Dysplasia by the OFA or does Not CERF, the dog will be replaced by another puppy provided that:

1) The dog's AKC/ UKC registration carries the BREEDER name or prefix BREEDER. (OP Note: Dog name does not have BREEDER on UKC/AKC paperwork)
2) The dog has not been bred, and has certification it has been Spayed or neutered. (OP Note: Dog balls intact)
3) A copy of the findings from the OFA or CERF to be sent to us (OP note: Only have doctor writeup and xRay. Never attempted OFA)
4) Replacement will be in the form of another BREEDER pup.


Below is a copy of the xRay.
Again, I'm not looking for a legal opinion. I can read and I understand what words mean. I'm looking for a fair expectation of both parties given the fact that I purchased a dog in good faith that has obvious hip problems regardless of the stipulations. I'm hoping the BREEDER might recognize this as well and we can simply maintain good relations with another pup. Advice appreciated including explanations of stipulations if I'm undervaluing them for some unknown reason.

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#5524114 - 01/06/15 05:34 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
dawaba Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4200
Loc: Big Eddy Road, Noonday
Since your dog is 36 months old and the guarantee clearly states that the breeder won't cover any hip issues after 26 months of age, your are legally out of luck, IMO.

However, those radiographs show severe hip changes that almost surely existed back at 26 month age. I know Dr. Hayes, and I believe he would also agree that the hips didn't deteriorate just over the last 10 months. There are bone spurs present and the flattening of the femoral heads suggest a condition that has been brewing for some time.

Over my career, I have known many, many breeders. 99.9% love what they do and are committed to breeding the best pups possible. Even though the warranty period has expired, I would bet a dollar to a donut that the breeder will help you resolve this situation, especially if you can get Dr. Hayes to write an opinion stating that the dysplasia has likely been there for some time. You may not get a free puppy, but I bet a compromise can be worked out. Talk to Dr. Hayes first and get his advice. Then contact the breeder and lay it all out.....and as dispassionately as possible. I bet you'll find some common ground. No breeder wants to see its pups out there in front of God and everyone with hereditary diseases; it reflects unfavorably on their breeding program. By the way, the breeder is going to insist that your dog be neutered, so its genes won't be passed along to the next generation. And it is the right thing to do anyway.

OFA certification is still the best way to guarantee a pup with good hips. But it's not perfect; more than once I've seen a dog with bad hips come out of OFA parents. Sadly, stuff happens.

Next, the issue going forward is what you will do with your dog with the bad hips. I'm betting your family loves the dog and won't consider ousting it from the family just because its hips are bad. So, you will be looking at some surgical options to help your dog cope with its bad joints. A salvage procedure called a FHO will really help most dogs, and many will still make great hunting dogs, just as many of us with old football injuries are still getting around. I would be surprised if the breeder will assist you financially with the hip surgeries (again, the guarantee has expired), but you never know.....

Good Luck!
_________________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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#5524118 - 01/06/15 05:35 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
That is a fairly standard guarantee. If you had done OFA at two the breeder would have most likely done something for you to the tune of a replacement puppy or a refund. This protects the buyer but also protects the breeder from someone coming back with an 8yo dog with RA and demanding their money back.

This is a horrible situation but all you can really do is make your dog comfortable. Go with whatever your vets recommendation is for that and if you planned on hunting hard or campaigning your dog start looking for a new pup. It won't be an easy thing to do. Just make sure that you discuss these things with the next breeder and follow their stipulations to the letter.
_________________________
Tony Marshall
Maximum Intensity Retrievers
https://m.facebook.com/maximumintensity.retrievers
(903) 720-6842

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#5524317 - 01/06/15 07:11 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: dawaba]
fanatiquack Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 282
Loc: Dallas, TX
You're right across the board and this is exactly the word I was looking for.
As letter of the law goes, I understand. But spirit is another thing.
And I'm hoping he'll see that. We'll see.
Thanks for your time and advice.
Sincerely.

Originally Posted By: dawaba
Since your dog is 36 months old and the guarantee clearly states that the breeder won't cover any hip issues after 26 months of age, your are legally out of luck, IMO.

However, those radiographs show severe hip changes that almost surely existed back at 26 month age. I know Dr. Hayes, and I believe he would also agree that the hips didn't deteriorate just over the last 10 months. There are bone spurs present and the flattening of the femoral heads suggest a condition that has been brewing for some time.

Over my career, I have known many, many breeders. 99.9% love what they do and are committed to breeding the best pups possible. Even though the warranty period has expired, I would bet a dollar to a donut that the breeder will help you resolve this situation, especially if you can get Dr. Hayes to write an opinion stating that the dysplasia has likely been there for some time. You may not get a free puppy, but I bet a compromise can be worked out. Talk to Dr. Hayes first and get his advice. Then contact the breeder and lay it all out.....and as dispassionately as possible. I bet you'll find some common ground. No breeder wants to see its pups out there in front of God and everyone with hereditary diseases; it reflects unfavorably on their breeding program. By the way, the breeder is going to insist that your dog be neutered, so its genes won't be passed along to the next generation. And it is the right thing to do anyway.

OFA certification is still the best way to guarantee a pup with good hips. But it's not perfect; more than once I've seen a dog with bad hips come out of OFA parents. Sadly, stuff happens.

Next, the issue going forward is what you will do with your dog with the bad hips. I'm betting your family loves the dog and won't consider ousting it from the family just because its hips are bad. So, you will be looking at some surgical options to help your dog cope with its bad joints. A salvage procedure called a FHO will really help most dogs, and many will still make great hunting dogs, just as many of us with old football injuries are still getting around. I would be surprised if the breeder will assist you financially with the hip surgeries (again, the guarantee has expired), but you never know.....

Good Luck!
_________________________

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#5524554 - 01/06/15 08:46 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
Baylor_Bears Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 1046
Loc: Austin
Keep us posted on what happens. Hopeing for the best
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#5524605 - 01/06/15 09:05 PM Re: Hip Dysplasia [Re: fanatiquack]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2702
Loc: Houston/Sealy
Penn hip is supposedly accurate at a young age and yes keep us posted
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.


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